What the hell ever happened to actually working for your equipment? - Page 2

TANGARTH · 03-23-2008, 03:26 AM

spending weeks camping CT to get my screaming mace is what made finally getting it so amazing

camps and heavily scripted named mobs may both rely heavy on the RNG, but they're both two totally different levels of annoyance

Slippery · 03-23-2008, 03:27 AM

You mean kind of how like when they did this the first time on a mob everyone said it was fucking retarded and to never make another mob like Mischief again?

Illuminator · 03-23-2008, 03:38 AM

Didn't Mischief come after TNT's reactive stuns? I think that's when I began bitching hard.

methulah · 03-23-2008, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okku

Partially agree, but then again, I have enough level 80's to actually think it is that fun to grind hard shit low level anymore, rather get them up faster and farm stuff higher levels. And there are items which, maybe aren't hard to get, but with a rare drop chance, like Cloak of Unrest, Robe from SoF, fabled stuff from MC, Vault etc.

Game is not as entertaining maybe, but what can u expect? we'we been playing for years, if things are easy to u, they may not be for other new players. Think how extremely huge the game is for a new player. If he was to die constantly as well and don't feel rewarded for what he as a noob does, only the very few persistant would survive. Why make it so hardcore for new players? It's not like eq2 couldn't need some more players.

You're wrong. It's all about the audience. Every single hardcore game has a target audience, just look at Ultima Online and Everquest even back when they were relatively technologically inaccessible to the average person. Now look at EVE: Online, with its many thousands of players online at any given time.

There is an audience without a game now, looking for hardcore PVE similar to The Golden Trilogy of Everquest (Live, Kunark and Velious). The audience exists, and we're crying out for a game, yet with every patch and Live Update, every developer of every game takes one more step away from us.

Kizee · 03-23-2008, 08:16 AM

Welcome to the world of instant gratification where most people don't want to work for stuff anymore..... because they have to work in a real job they don't think they should in a game.

I agree most of my biggest memories in EQ1 was when you saw someone with raid loot you were in awe of him because he put in the time to get it. Now in EQ2 just about every schmuck has mostly fabled/legendary stuff.

It is pretty sad where these game are going these days.

Anap KaSplat · 03-23-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgander

It's funny how brave people are at things like name calling and unconstructive criticism when their anonymity is protected by their computer screen.

Bravo you brave little “interweb”-bastard! And what whit I might add! *clap*

[...]

Don’t worry, you can thank me later, when your e-penis isn’t so “hard” from showing me who’s the boss.

And who are you, anonymous, name calling, no character name, no guild name, no server person?

*Hardain* · 03-23-2008, 10:41 AM

Reason why i retired. This game has became way too easy and fast to progress. Levels are getting faster to grind after every raise in level cap which is tarded, rares and masters don't have much value and crafting is nerfed to oblivion too.

Flaeme · 03-23-2008, 11:08 AM

Camping sucked, the RNG sucked and doing all these difficult and annoying quests sucked. Spirit shards sucked and running half an hour to get somewhere sucked.

However, finally getting your own GEB's, RoI, EBBC or whatever else more than made up for any minor annoyance such as retrieving half a dozen spirit shards, running around for half a week, camping a giant in LS for 2 days or harvesting for your ebon cluster a week or two.

And the funny thing is that, immediately after completing said quests, you'd take your party and run off to CT because apparently you could get a really cool mace around there..

Right now, this mace or claymore is given to you after gathering all your courage and slaying 10 badgers. Aparently when mr. questgiver tells you these badger are scary and destructive that makes them so. In reality they flop over dead just by staring at them. They even give out clickies these days that make a mob die instantly. Why do I bother mastering my spell and swordmastery techniques when I can just get a gnomish frypan that instantly kills whatever it touches? Damn them though for only making the frypan work for as long as I'm doing their quest!

Seriously, where in T5 maybe too much content was too difficult or time robbing, right now it is the complete opposite. Nothing has any sense of accomplishment anymore. Time to move on..

Morgander · 03-23-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenman

I completely agree with you Morgander, but this problem isn't limited to just MMORPGs. Nobody wants to have to put forth effort to accomplish anything in video games these days. The masses want instant gratification, they don't want any amount of difficulty or time investment whatsoever. They don't want to have to camp a mob on and off for weeks to obtain a piece of good loot, they don't want to come across a mob that will completely bitchslap them and make them think and have to spend a week throwing themselves at it gradually learning how to win. In their eyes, games like Battletoads and Ghouls N' Ghosts were horrible because they sucked too much to beat them without Game Genie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenman

And the worst part is, any developer wanting to make money is going to cater to the stupid masses. Nowadays it's completely unheard of for a developer to release a game that some people will flat out be unable to beat. It's fucking pathetic, and I'm losing hope that we'll ever get a good difficult game again, let alone an MMO.

This was unbelievably genius, the games you used to spark this analogy. I completed both Super Ghouls and Ghosts and Super Battletoads. In fact I recall Super Battle Toads slated as so incredibly difficult that Nintendo Power magazine had a place for somebody's picture if they could take one with themselves in front of the completion screen for that game.

I never sent it in but I should have, I could have posted it now, ha.

You're right though and through my years of game theory and studying game design I've come to the conclusion that bad games are the result of bad gamers. People who I'm going to classify as newbies; casual gamers who haven't the foggiest on how to keep a retention rich, deep and developed online world in tact because as you've slated, everyone indeed does simply want instant gratification. They want soloing, they want no death penalty, they want instancing, and they want hand holding in a way that ensures their progress.

It sucks. It really, truly sucks.

Morgander · 03-23-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okku

Partially agree, but then again, I have enough level 80's to actually think it is that fun to grind hard shit low level anymore, rather get them up faster and farm stuff higher levels. And there are items which, maybe aren't hard to get, but with a rare drop chance, like Cloak of Unrest, Robe from SoF, fabled stuff from MC, Vault etc.

Game is not as entertaining maybe, but what can u expect? we'we been playing for years, if things are easy to u, they may not be for other new players. Think how extremely huge the game is for a new player. If he was to die constantly as well and don't feel rewarded for what he as a noob does, only the very few persistant would survive. Why make it so hardcore for new players? It's not like eq2 couldn't need some more players.

Just to state a "show of hands" so to speak let me direct you to one fundamental factor in regards to this sentiment:

Everquest was like this-

Everquest had more subscribers than EQII (to my knowledge) has nearly ever had. Even if EQII surpassed the subscription of Everquest, it was short lived-

Everquest currently (unless again my information is incorrect) has a higher subscription count. Even if I'm incorrect about that statement, Everquest has a high enough subscription rate to validate that your idea does not in fact hold much merit-

Everquest has survived since 1999 and has existed for much longer than Everquest II-

To be fair though, the current incantation of Everquest has changed dramatically since 1999. It is now easier and with less penalty for death than it ever was, but it's still rightly many, MANY times more difficult and bottlenecked than Everquest II has nearly ever been.