Merge stats - Page 2

Vuetee · 06-24-2009, 09:33 AM

Merging subclasses would be quite a smart idea actually, and provided SoE did it right it would make the game more sucessful... however, who really trusts SoE to do that? lol...

Is stats merging really coming out though?

nyquist · 06-24-2009, 10:03 AM

I have the best idear ever!

MERGE ALL STATS INTO 1!!!!!

that will make it Sooooooooooooooooooo easy! Then to see if you roxzor more than someonez else, you see their Stat (singular) and if they have 2156, and you have 1337, you know they could pwnzor your ass!!!! DONE.

Edit: So great going SOE! I CAN"T FREAKING WAIT! Take all the fun of figuring out what piece of gear you want, out of the game; and making it even more nub-friendly than WoW...GG

firamas · 06-24-2009, 11:02 AM

No need to overreact, dude. You can discuss things reasonably or you can realize that you have no worthwhile opinion and shit just on a thread. You chose the latter.

Merging certain stats like crit might not be a bad idea. They're not going to just do this without adjusting itemization to make sense with it. I dunno why people think they'd intentionally do something so destructive to the game; you think the developers want the game to fail??

Merging WIS and INT into a single stat could also make sense, from an itemization point of view. Likewise STR and AGI.

The bottom line is that they've been adding more and more types of effects and stats over the last few years, and breaking it down into subcategories over and over just makes it harder to itemize.

Some of you fuckers act like a change like this will go in and you'd log in on patch day to a game that played totally different. Here's a clue: they could do a full on, no shit, 24->12 class merge and for most of the archetypes it'd play (feel) 98% the same as you've always been used to, except you'd have new icons for your abilities, would have to make some serious AA tree choices, and you'd have to read over what the merged ancient teachings now did. A bard would still feel like a bard, a shaman would still feel like a shaman, a brawler would still feel like a brawler, etc. Predators are the ONLY class where the subclasses are played substantially differently... and even then that boils down to an issue of where they stand relative to the mob.

I understand... people like to bitch about any change from the status quo. I get it. Your e-life is just that boring, and complaining about every dev attempt to implement game improvements is a personal affront to you and the longstanding relationship you have with your avatar. It's cool. We'll be here to tell you where and when you're wrong. Thank us later!

nyquist · 06-24-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

No need to overreact, dude.
OMG! Then what is the internet for???????!!?!?!?!?

Since you want serious input here it is :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

Merging certain stats like crit might not be a bad idea.
I agree ,the crits aren't that bad as long as they stay grouped in a legitimate manner; I could not handle, however, Heal crit + melee crit or something ridiculous like that...

Merging WIS and INT into a single stat could also make sense, from an itemization point of view. Likewise STR and AGI.
Potentially this could work...but I really like the current system of individual stats; I think this gives us the ability to evaluate our gear more in-depth, and decide for ourselves what kind of gear we should use.

I don't like the idea of /easymodeby combining major stats like that. Then there would be fewer possible routes to pursue (for gear and potion and traits) and merging of all kinds of 'styles' that I don't see having enough of a positive impact on the game

Some of you fuckers act like a change like this will go in and you'd log in on patch day to a game that played totally different.
Seriously, it would not completely change the gameplay, it would just eliminate a LOT of special routes to playing your class in the style you want; e.g. some tanks (not necicarrily raiding tanks...or the like) like to go for AGI as their main stat, others like STA, and others still like STR; well if we merge stats, then all those different tank styles will effectively merge as well, making tanking a more boring and less dynamic experience, then there would be fewer routes to take when gearing/spec'ing your toons

Here's a clue: they could do a full on, no shit, 24->12 class merge and for most of the archetypes it'd play (feel) 98% the same as you've always been used to, except you'd have new icons for your abilities, would have to make some serious AA tree choices, and you'd have to read over what the merged ancient teachings now did. A bard would still feel like a bard, a shaman would still feel like a shaman, a brawler would still feel like a brawler, etc. Predators are the ONLY class where the subclasses are played substantially differently... and even then that boils down to an issue of where they stand relative to the mob.
I think the AA's are the main difference for most classes, esp. healers; one healer has Melee, and the other has more heal/spell related AAs to choose from

If you get rid of these, then there would be MAJOR changes to the way one would play the said class; however, I agree that some classes could be merged with little (or NO) change to their play style or AA effects

I understand... people like to bitch about any change from the status quo.
Why fix what's not broken?

Plus this, to me at least, seems like a horrid idea: effectively eliminate a major distinguishing factor for anyone concentrating on their stats

Zianlo · 06-24-2009, 12:14 PM

I disagree on the point made where the only class that is different when it dips down to subclass is the predator.

Rogues, for example..Swashys debuff offensive skills, brigs debuff defensive skills. Swashy is much more of an aoe dps, Brig is most definately a single target dps.

Crusaders, both are aoe tanks. Play style between SK and Paladin are much different; where as a paladin is more defensive based and excluding bloodletter, has more survivability than the SK, but does not do as much dps as the offensive based SK. They hold aggro differently as well, one with amends, taunts and dps. The other with taunts and dps.

Summoners even as similar as they seem on the outside, when broken down to the subclass level of Conj and Necro, playstyle is extremely different between the two. Necro has more survivability because of lifetaps and heals for the pet while soloing. They kill much slower than the Conj, because Necros use dots and the Conj uses DDs. Even when grouping, the playstyle is much different. Necros can blast away with dots all day and not gank aggro. Conjys have to be more conservative with their nukes or they will gank the aggro.

What about the healers though? Well, Druids in this case, are way different when broken down into subclass. Wardens AA set them up for a melee spec. While melee spec, a warden is still able to proc a heal on attack, keep the majority of the heal aa's with many melee AA's included. Even in a full heal spec'd AA setup for a warden, youve still got alot of melee bonuses in there.
When it comes to Furies, they are spell based. They do dmg with spells, not melee. Never played a fury, of all the ones I mentioned, so I have less experience as a fury..Well, less is as in none. In any case, both Druids heal with HoTs, the warden's being the better of the two.

The playstyle in which both are played is extremely different though, which is my point. So to say that the entire 24 => 12 class revamp is a simple maneuver, you are drestically incorrect sir.

Edit: Figured Id take out a couple insults and sarcasm to not distract from my point

Bartlby · 06-24-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zianlo

I disagree on the point made where the only class that is different when it dips down to subclass is the predator.

Rogues, for example..Swashys debuff offensive skills, brigs debuff defensive skills. Swashy is much more of an aoe dps, Brig is most definately a single target dps.

That is not a playstyle... that's spell effects. Swashbuckler and brigands play very similar to each other. They just debuff different stats.

Zianlo · 06-24-2009, 06:37 PM

Playstyle of a brig compared to a swash is different, I just didnt go into detail. Should I have? Apparently so....

Brigands are single target focused, Swashys are much more adept at handling aoe dps. Yes, both get try to get behind to mobs to do the most damage, but where a brigand will have to constantly switch targets, a swash can aoe, catching the adds in range. And how is the type of debuff not a factor in the playstyle? Debuffing offensive capabilities makes it so you can take a hit easier. Debuffing defensive makes it so you hit them harder.

Taking a hit as a swashy, some could say, is easier since those abilities get debuffed, making it easier as a swashy to solo. It wont make too much of a difference if the swashy is in front or behind the mob, in range or out of range to get hit because the hits he's taking will be weaker.

A Brigand, on the other hand, needs to not get hit, needs to stay out of range or away from the mobs front, so that he can get off a dispatch, enfeeblement, ect type of debuffs. Also, as a brig, when Amazing Reflexes proc's, which it does quite often, we are able to stay in when that massive aoe hits from raid mobs, where a swashy would have to use their aoe prevenet at the beginning or midfight and have it be down for the duration of the fight.

Jousting because of our different aoe blockers are up or not, keeping mobs stunned, which brigands have more of than swashy, debuff types that determine how you will solo a mob or group of mobs, and the entire combat plan of a Brigand compared to a Swashy are drastically different when you break it down.

Now, Bartlby, you ignorant hillbilly, do you have anything else to let spew from that festering shithole you call a mouth?

firamas · 06-24-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartlby

That is not a playstyle... that's spell effects. Swashbuckler and brigands play very similar to each other. They just debuff different stats.

And this is why people will complain whenever class consolidation is brought up. They can't understand what's actually being discussed... it's not the specifics of the individual paired spells, its the "feel" of the class. The role that you play. The way you interact with the group or raid.

JFC, how many people (outside of the raiders and more experienced heroic content ppl) dont realize that many, if not most, non-AT abilities are very closely (in some cases almost exactly) thematically mirrored with their opposite subclass? 30%? 50%? You think that number is high?... well look again.. there are a lot of extraordinarily ignorant people playing MMO's.

Zianlo · 06-25-2009, 12:59 AM

So...is that in agreement to me or not Firamas? Its late and my mind is not working quickly atm

Vuetee · 06-25-2009, 08:57 AM

Merging base stats like Str/Agi is a dumb idea and if you disagree you need shooting...

It would make fighters OP for a start...

And what would you call it? Strility?

Int/wis is also a no go due to the fact it would make healers OP and mages would have no benefit whatsoever.

Same with mixing any crits, MC+SC = SK (more) OP, MC + HC = INQ OP, HC + SC = Healers OP...

Obviously it COULD be done, but think about wizards and warlocks... They rely mainly on Int + SC... they won't gain anything, unless you mod their AA to give them a hell of a lot more than others (SK for example get 60+ SC... wtf?)... but most raiding wizards/warlocks are capped SC neways and are now looking for Spell mod/Spell Crit Mod gear etc...

You WILL NOT be able to merge crits without making an ass of it, or DA's, as knowing SoE DA will apply to wizards too and add up with their myth, so basically any nuke such as Ice Comet and Fission (or whatever they are called now) will be way OP...

and basically the whole thing will make all classes OP tbh, except from a unlucky few...

So unless you want to bring out raid zones that are 2 times harder than current and then merge them to make older zones /easymode, it will be a big fail imo...