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  1. #1
    YOU SHALL NOT PASS! Illuminator's Avatar
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    Default Ring of the Four Winds > Ring of Supremacy

    I'm not going to spill the details of my hyper-elaborate spreadsheet just yet (if ever) but I will happily bait you with the conclusion:

    Basically a Ring of Supremacy is 172-286 damage, 1.8 times/min = 229*1.8/60 = 6.87 dps.

    But the theoretical difference between 95% and 100% recast after non-AGI AA's is roughly 32 dps.

    - This is before debuffs and crits.
    - This is purely from math using cast, recast, and recovery times without using the randomness found in a parse.
    - This applies to my wizard character at 604 INT.
    - This applies to straight single-target burns. Gotchas with encounter dps haven't been sought yet.

    You could multiply your proc rate by 4 and still the RotFW edges the RoS out.

  2. #2
    Demon Alcohol
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    Default Re: Ring of the Four Winds > Ring of Supremacy

    Good enough for me!

    God, please forgive me. I will not drink anymore... or any less.

  3. #3
    Halfelf Mohawk
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    Default Re: Ring of the Four Winds > Ring of Supremacy

    Would this be wizard specific enough to be in those forums?

    Either way, based on how good you make it sound for them I'm pretty sure the RotFW is FTW for pretty much any class, except maybe warriors or something.

    Also going off this, how would the cloak of unrest stack up to Sol ro?

  4. #4
    YOU SHALL NOT PASS! Illuminator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ring of the Four Winds > Ring of Supremacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Drodin View Post
    Would this be wizard specific enough to be in those forums?
    Possibly, but I allowed the possibility that someone from another class might take the ball and run with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drodin View Post
    Also going off this, how would the cloak of unrest stack up to Sol ro?
    Interesting you should ask! If I find free time I will try to have an answer for you. But rest assured that there is an answer to be had.

  5. #5
    Scito te ipsum Slippery's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ring of the Four Winds > Ring of Supremacy

    I'm mildly interested how you come up with 32 dps. What numbers are you basing this off of?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Ring of the Four Winds > Ring of Supremacy

    Yeah, that sounds about right, though i havent sat down and done the maths myself, since it seemed to be a pretty straight forward and easy choice. The recast reduction on the ring of four winds stacks with AAs, and either the cloak of unrest or earring of unkempt power (cloak and earring don't stack with eachother).

    The fact that it stacks makes it more useful in everyday raid use, largely because (as a wizard), you have the potential to run with quite high spell haste (AAs, troub, TC, Robe of Al'Kabor), and you will find recast timers becoming more of the limiting factor.

    And as somewhat of a side-note regarding the Ring of Supremacy, I actually swapped mine out and replaced it with the band of braided veins. As a wizard, it appears that the band will actually contribute higher single target damage than the ring, although the ring is superior for group encounters.
    Daray.Wizard.Butcherblock



  7. #7
    YOU SHALL NOT PASS! Illuminator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ring of the Four Winds > Ring of Supremacy

    I have a spreadsheet that was given to me, originally having only burst dps i.e. total spell damage vs. cast+recovery time. A long time ago I jacked it up to include a column extended dps, which is total spell damage vs. full cycle time. I was just curious which spells contributed the most. The cycle time is how often the spell can produce its damage when cast end to end. For example, Surging Tempest's cycle time is 3 second cast + .5 second recovery + 48 second duration + 30 second trailing recast = 81.5 seconds.

    The recast times are pulled from a column then multiplied by a cell value containing the recast fraction. If you have no recast reducers, the value is 1.0. If you have 5% reduction like the ring, the value is 0.95.

    Then there is a final cell adding up specific cells containing the extended dps of these spells in my rotation, with the sum being around 1400:

    Protoferno
    Surging Tempest
    Iceshield
    Ice Nova
    Fusion
    Firestorm
    Incapacitate
    Irradiate
    Ball of Lava
    etc.

    When you switch the modifier from 1.00 to .95, the difference in net extended dps is roughly 32 on my character.

    I make no claims whatsoever about encounters; off the top of my head, I would say that the blessings of the RotFW should extend to everything. But I just don't know if there are any holes in my reasoning. I haven't thought hard about it yet.

  8. #8
    It's all in the reflexes

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    Default Re: Ring of the Four Winds > Ring of Supremacy

    I only have a basic grasp of this, but isn't your proposed 6.87 dps increase based on 20 casts per minute, since the 1.8 times per minute assumes a 3s delay between casts (60/3=20)? Since you obviously cast more than 20 times per minute the dps increase is actually more, right?

    I'm sorry if I'm completely wrong here, just trying to understand. If I'm wrong, I would appreciate if you corrected me, rather than the usual suspects coming around and saying I'm "retarded". Thanks.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ring of the Four Winds > Ring of Supremacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cupcake View Post
    I only have a basic grasp of this, but isn't your proposed 6.87 dps increase based on 20 casts per minute, since the 1.8 times per minute assumes a 3s delay between casts (60/3=20)? Since you obviously cast more than 20 times per minute the dps increase is actually more, right?

    I'm sorry if I'm completely wrong here, just trying to understand. If I'm wrong, I would appreciate if you corrected me, rather than the usual suspects coming around and saying I'm "retarded". Thanks.
    When the formula for proc chances was changed a while back, it was normalised to 3 seconds (2.5s casting + 0.5s recovery). So something that used to say "has a 10% chance to proc on a successful hostile spell" actually became "has a 10% chance to proc on a successful hostile spell with a 2.5s casting time and 0.5s recovery". Because of the confusion that this would cause, the text was actually reworded, so in the above example it became "will proc an average of 2.0 times per minute".

    As somewhat of a side-note, the proc chance is calculated against base casting times (or base weapon delay), such that any (spell) haste will actually increase your chance to proc that effect.
    Daray.Wizard.Butcherblock



  10. #10
    It's all in the reflexes

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    Default Re: Ring of the Four Winds > Ring of Supremacy

    Quote Originally Posted by daray View Post
    When the formula for proc chances was changed a while back, it was normalised to 3 seconds (2.5s casting + 0.5s recovery). So something that used to say "has a 10% chance to proc on a successful hostile spell" actually became "has a 10% chance to proc on a successful hostile spell with a 2.5s casting time and 0.5s recovery". Because of the confusion that this would cause, the text was actually reworded, so in the above example it became "will proc an average of 2.0 times per minute".

    As somewhat of a side-note, the proc chance is calculated against base casting times (or base weapon delay), such that any (spell) haste will actually increase your chance to proc that effect.
    Thank you. It's kind of what I was saying though. Illuminator rightly says there is a dps increase of 6.87 dps based on the proc triggering 1.8 times per minute. However, I'm suggesting it's actually higher than that since it will proc a lot more if you have casting haste.

    Of course, it would take a lot of procs (more than is probably possible to achieve) to actually compete with the suggested 32dps increase of the RotFW, but I'm just saying it's not such a large discepancy as is suggested.

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