Flayedskin

It seems to me the only butt hurt person is you for posting someone else's email to you.

But hes worth mentioning and posting about...I have been playing with this dude for almost a month and a half and he never even talked about your guild Once...what have you accomplished by chance in this game?

This is a great guild recruitment message for your guild....way to teach us True Blood members a harsh lesson on poor guild leadership. I guess we're lucky the example in this case didnt come from OUR guild but yours.

Flayedskin

Well in Val's defense he wasnt expecting a private in game message to be posted on flames...

Wilhan

Oh, you let yourself get dragged into these things. I'll never understand what motivates you to try and fix Khawn's mistakes and help him out of trouble. You guys are friends, so you wanted to help Khawn try to fix the problem of his own doing. Khawn threw a temper tantrum, lost raiders, and no longer had enough people to clear the few things they could before. You offered your help. Khawn claimed the kills that you got him as his own to try to boost recruitment (unsuccessfully), and then spent the next three months unable to replicate the kills. I don't think it's reaching to claim that without you babysitting Khawn, he can't get anything done. You helping him isn't the curse, his piss-poor excuse for guild/raid leadership is the curse. I feel for the people that are still there. A lot of them deserve so much better.

EDIT: Oh, and way to take the credit away from your own raiders when they finally got those kills. You had to go claiming the kills when you didn't earn them, so now that you have earned them it's already been said. But, for what it's worth, congratulations are due to your raiders for their work in spite of your 'leadership'.

Razzler

When I last played EQ2 (over a year ago), A&A was bitching to me about poaching their players. I felt bad, so I went on one of their PR raids to try to help out. It was the longest three hours of my life.

I guess some things never change.

- Razzler
ex-TB officer
former uber coercer
thinking of playing again

Khawn

Why after being gone 5 months is he even still bringing it up if he isn't butthurt about it and what the hell is it any of Val's business what happened between he and I 5 month's ago. If he wasn't still crying about it Val would have no reason to even send an email. Tough shit if you didn't want the action of one of your officers made public, then don't do stupid shit that doesn't involve you. Write your congressman, you'll get more outta that than you will me. I didn't send an email, Val did, so I'm not sure where you get off saying I'm trying to teach anyone a lesson, this is a true representation of an email for no reason from one of YOUR officers. Isn't it kinda weird to still be cryinig about it 5 months after it happened.

He obviously cried to someone or Val would have had no reason to send such an email.

And thank you on the congratulatios to the raiders in my guild, I could care less how you feel about me but they are doing the kills now (without the help of 2 whole other people) and I personally am proud of them.

Wilhan

I find myself still waiting for somebody, on any side of this, to refute anything I've said. People in both guilds, and every guild I raided with in between, have read over this and had their chance to step in and set the record. And so far? Nothing. For the sake of simplicity, I'll even lay it all out in concise bullet points, that way you can easily point out any flaw.

- Despite A&A's raid attendance policy, which at the time was sign-up raiding and 75% raid attendance, Khawn had a temper tantrum when I chose not to sign up for ONE raid in the span of two months, with full consent of the raid leader.

- After aforementioned temper tantrum, it was decided that the proper course of action for not signing up for one raid, in perfect accordance with the guild's policies, was to permanently ban the offending party/parties from raiding with you.

- After quite a bit of laughter, the offenders left your guild without a second thought.

- During the following couple weeks, A&A lost enough raiders that they could no longer even fill a WOE raid within the guild, much less clear the zone.

- Khawn begins logging in to Transcendence's Ventrilo, by all accounts much more frequently than ever before, to ask Icehale to run A&A's raids and bring in people to fill spots, in an attempt to keep A&A afloat after losing so many raiders, and being unable to raid autonomously.

- Trans raiders even went so far as to lock timers on their mains just to help keep A&A raiding, since Khawn couldn't keep the guild going after his tantrum lost the guild half a dozen raiders, including their MT, and OT Cleric.

- After having A&A raids run and staffed by Transcendence members, you finally accomplished the monumental achievement of not fucking up Switchmaster, Strange Stalker, and Kultak. Once. Afterwards, A&A claimed the kills as theirs, but were unable to replicate the kills with their own raidforce for THREE MONTHS.

- In that time, you have perpetually been recruiting, trying to bring in new people faster than your existing people realize you're running the guild into the ground.

- In the same three-month span, Peejee and I gleefully left your guild, and app'd to much better guilds, successfully.

Feel free to correct any mistakes I may have made. So, again, thank you so much for flipping your shit and having an ego trip, Khawn. It just so happened that it gave me the motivation to get out there and see where I ended up, once I wasn't being held back by your LeaderShit.

Wilhan

As much as I'm sure it would bring some small piece of joy to your life, Khawn, nobody sit around pining for the glory days of raiding with you.

You were brought up by several people during a favorite guild passtime of Trading War Stories About Terrible Raiding Experiences.

Seriously, drop the "only two people" bit. It was frequently more than two. Even when it was actually only two people, thosetwo people were leading the raid, main tanking the raid, MT healing the raid, organizing the groups, calling timers, calling jousts, coordinating the fights, and handing you the strat. So, cut the bullshit.

Secretia

Wow, the horseshit runs deep here.

First off, Valyriae's original e-mail to Khawn. Does Val have Memento memory or is he just that many months behind with the thank you notes to TB members old guilds? I'm guessing Trans will be getting their fond thank you letter by Q2 2010.

Wilhan, you were thisclose to being booted the night you decided you didn't want to try Switch with us, even though you'd signed up previously, because you didn't think we had the raid makeup to do it. How many times have you pulled that shit with your subsequent guilds? Yeah, didn't think so. Because they would boot your ass faster than some people around here seem to want to kiss it. I was one of the ones calling for a kick the loudest in /off chat. I couldn't have given two shits about you, but I didn't like the precedent it was gonna set. Unfortunately, Varsor liked you enough to try to mediate the whole thing. Next thing I know, you left and thankfully took your little black cloud with you.

Ice, you have to ask how you keep getting dragged into these things when Wilhan's been involved both times that I know about (including that little anon hissyfit on Flames a few months ago?) Wake up, fella, he's a manipulator.

Yeah, Peejee "gleefully" left after she made two members /guild quit because once she starts digging a hole she doesn't always have the sense to stop. We already have an awesome raid fury, and she told an officer that she was wanting to raid with another guild. Fine, we all pay our own $15, whatever. Then she starts talking shit in the chat channel and that's when her alts were booted from Axes. I guess that's what we get for trying in good faith to make things work out.

If you think Varsor left because of you or Khawn's leadership you're bugnuts crazy. We had a rough patch afterward because we'd always geared him and one other tank out, and Ice was kind enough to tank for us in the meantime. We learned our lesson there and are now making sure we have multiple tanks who can take the reins if someone gets hit by a bus or can't afford their subscription fee anymore.

Khawn's the best guild leader I've had since I started online gaming back in Neverwinter Nights in 1994. And that's pretty funny because I married my first GL.

Good luck to whatever guild wants to put up with Wilhan's attitude. I'm glad I don't have to deal with it in my guild anymore.

Calus

Drama... Val threw out a bait and you ate it Khawn. I'm sorry to see that.

Few things I've learned trying to lead a building raidguild:

1. Never take the bait for drama, if you do happen to take the bait, damage control immediately, you can't afford to let you or your guild look silly, you only have one real shot.

2. Don't take credit for kills if other guilds have filled important spots for the encounter.

3. Never ever ever ever ever ever ever let anger or frustrations fuel your decisions.

Nobody can claim to be a perfect guild/raid leader, but you can try to be the a damn good one. Not saying I'm leading my guild perfectly either, but all you can do is try.

__________________

Through Victory my chains shall be broken.

Wilhan

Refresh my memory. That night I decided that it would be futile to spend pulling Switchmaster, for the fortieth time, did it go beyond the first round of yellow vision? Didn't think so. I'm not a big fan of having my time wasted, and spending all night with people that can't follow simple instructions or survive an AE hit definitely qualifies. And you're right, I haven't missed a raid in any subsequent guild. Want to take a guess at why that is? *DINGDINGDING* That's right! Because I wasn't losing 20p a week in repair bills to fights that PUG raids can and do kill. How unreasonable of me to expect that a guild that honestly wants to be a progression raidforce would actually have standards of play. In honor of A&A, my deity pet is still named "Whatdoyoumeancurenox", by the way.

Ice only gets dragged into this shit when Khawn comes crying. I was told to keep quiet about A&A while I was raiding under a Transcendence tag. I held up my end of the bargain, but things are different now. But seriously, everybody, WAKE UP! I'm a manipulator. I can't handle my own mistakes, so I come crying to other people to make people stop making fun of me. Oh, wait, that wasn't me was it?

I know damn well Varsor didn't leave because of me. We all had our reason for leaving you behind. Frustration with leadership, lack of progress, being forced to use classes and players that were detrimental just to make people feel good, your fail DKP system...take your pick really. The fact is, a lot of people had a lot of reasons to leave, and many of us did. Kudos to the loyalists there, I guess. You feel bad for the guild that has to put of with me? I feel bad for the people that are still having to equate raiding with babysitting.