Miresh

What is everyone thinking for the additional 20/20 AAs in RoK? There has been some discussion on the Bruiser boards, but I want to start a thread here. Personally, I think brawlers are kinda hosed by this change, especially compared to warriors. For tanking, we are basically limited to improving contested avoidance (and the final INT ability) and have marginal (compared to warriors) improvements in DPS.

My thoughts now are to stick with STA/WIS/INT, maxing Crane Twirl and Mantis Bolt for damage. I am leaning towards:
STA 4/8/8
WIS 4/4/8/7/2
INT 4/4/8/6/2

Basically, that throws the one extra point into Hit Points. Could also go STA 4/4/8 and use the extra points somewhere else. I am not convinced that agility is terribly useful with monks since we have relatively quick reuse.

As for the monk tree, we are well and truly fucked. IMHO the extra points will be mainly window dressing with only slight utility.

Any other thoughts?

Mimn

Here is going to be my spec
4 4 8 6 2 wis
4 4 8 int
4 4 8 sta
4 4 5 agi

I want the agi line for 2 reasons the refresh timer on our bigger ca's and also quickens the reuse of craneflock. Also the second item in the line makes ca's faster so less missed autoattacks. Where i can have though 2 builds in rok my tank/solo build is going to be a bit different

4 4 8 6 2 wis
4 4 8 6 2 int
4 4 8 5 sta

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Couch

Our brawler tree is a joke comparing to warrior and crusader tree. There isn't anything useful for extra 20 aa points.

The Mantis bolt, 24% of 120-200 damage single target proc, is a joke. It gives you about 25-30 dps.

I would say agi line is better since 12% haste on CAs reuse gives you about the same dps gain but you get benefit on other utilities as well such as mend, tsunami, taunt, etc.

For monk tree, it's another joke.

Miresh

Good points on AGI. I forgot about speeding the reuse on Crane Flock, so that is a pretty good point. You are probably right, Couch, the weak-ass proc probably does less, in the end, than the effect of the reuse timers.

As for faster recovery, my understanding is that you can autoattack during the recovery time, so the change in recovery time means you could spam CAs faster, but doesn't help autoattack at all. With really slow weapons, you might be able to hit two CA's between one autoattack, but with the "typical" 2.5s delay hasted weapons, you can still only fit one CA.

Correct me if I am wrong here.

Couch

As my understand, you can't auto attack in the recovery time.

Anjin

Not only were our class and subclass aa choices inferior to other fighter classes (even forgetting the inherent problems brawlers have in tanking), but providing more aa points without extra choices pretty much proves that either a) SOE developers have absolutely no idea about brawlers or b) they want the brawler class to die.

Mimn

Yeah i may fiddle with the agi and sta line. Heck more i think about it the more the agi line looks better for tanking vs sta line. It will be interesting to try and who knows come rok they may buff up the procs where they mean more. Brawlers are hard to balance and really the only thing they can do to us is make us better buffers ((ie the casting haste raidwide)) without overpowering us as of solo and group enviroments. To be honest I really dont want to lose that ability as my monk is my lil farmer and is how i make my coin and getting hurt there as of solo ability I do not want to give up for a higher raid parse.

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Miresh

Now you have me thinking about the recovery time thing. There was some discussion at one point that if you had 1s delay weapons (with haste), then you could just spam CAs because you would always drop an autoattack during recovery time. I think manastone has a long recovery, so I will have to check autoattacks during that time.
As for balancing brawlers, I really dont think it would be that hard. For one thing, give us the same (or better) uncontested avoidance as a warrior with a sheild in offensive stance. That alone would smooth out most of our raid issues and have near-zero impact on solo/group play. Then, create some meaningful tank/dps AA trees. Hell, combine the two ... change the fourth level AAs to "caster will deflect/parry/dodge x%" of incoming attacks (although that increases our non-epic avoidance too).

Anyway ... I am derailing my old thread with the old arguments.

Pinski

Your understanding is completely wrong and has been disproven many many times. If you are spamming CAs, the only time you get auto-attacks in is during the recovery period.

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All of the reasons why I've felt this way
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So long
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Couch

No, the way you tried to prove or disprove is incorrect.

Even if you spam CAs, if auto attack is ready while casting CA, auto attack will fire right after the end of recovery time. Then you get next CA.

What you said didn't prove anything.

The best example is why 1.6 delay weapon is worse than 2.5 delay weapon before lu38 since with max haste, 1.6 becomes 0.7 delay and we will waste auto attack while casting CAs (0.5) + recovery (0.5) = 1 sec.

If auto attack can fire during recovery time, we won't lose auto attack on 1.6 delay weapon while casting CA.