Muraha

Greetings Monks,


I have been studying the monk class vs bruiser class threads and have read through all of the combat art listings for each. From a purely raiding point of view I have come to the conclusion that a monk provides way more for a raid force than a bruiser.

-Group Hate reduction
-Haste 24 & 14.4% Casting speed - Raidwide
-Monk heal is raidwide, bruiser is self-only
-Group feign-death as opposed to self-only (Handy for learning encounters and getting everyone up quicker)

The arguements for a bruiser are as follows
-Drag - AA ability - Monks get peel now so no big loss
-Bruisers buff raidwide agression allowing taunts to land better and at the same time increase the amount of de-taunts. While this is nice to have our tanks are not having any difficulties with agro so this is no big loss. Especially considering that the monk will reduce the hate of his group which is mostly casters
-Higher DPS - I think we all agree that bruisers are higher DPS but IMO the raidwide dps will make up for this due to the faster casting speed and haste that monks bring. A small price to pay for the extra utility.


I have put all this to our bruiser and he has come back with one arguement that I cannot get around, which is where you guys come in He claims that, since they have so much self-buffed haste and shit combat arts, monks do most of their DPS from auto-attack. This makes them an extremely boring class to play.

Is this true? What makes a monk interesting for you guys and do you think I am right to want him to betray?

Thank you in advance

Arzoth

Aggression will typically be capped via the dirge Hyran's hate gain spell and a few added +aggression bonuses so bruiser's ability = pfft.

Drag is useful for 1 fight that I know of so far... that's Avatar of Flame.

DPS - I have yet to see and head to head competition of WW top raiding guild monks and bruisers in person, but as far as what I have witnessed first hand, monk dps is not so astonishingly lower than bruiser dps to have such and an adverse effect on a decision like betraying. Regardless of all situations, obtaining the proper gear and weapons specifically allows for brawlers to do the optimum dps.

As far as the auto attack comment, it's not so very different from any other class. There are certain spells and combat arts for all classes that are not totally scaled to the proper level. Such as Silent Palm for monks currently. The amount of power it requires and lack of damage out put makes it pretty much useless to use.

He is right that monk self haste is quite rediculous and perhaps our biggest gripe is a lack of dps enhancing gear and the over abundance of haste gear, but monks are not boring to play.

With intercept, mend, and now peel, monks have the ability to be a situational awesome class. Being able to tank, dps, and provide utility for a raid is not only a great challenge to a player, but is one of those "Wow" factors in a raid when played well.

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Trumak

If you look like your avatar I will convince him of anything you want. While bruisers have been better than monks for a while now I see them being more equal than one better than other atm. Also the bruiser raid buff works separately than hate gain increase like hyrans so it actually is still useful. Having one or the other is not going to make a big difference so I say let him play what he wants.

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Muraha

You have only compared the hate reduction from the monk to the +agression & extra de-hate of the bruiser. What about the raidwide casting and haste increase? Faster rezz, heals, debuffs, spell casting . If you say there is very little difference , which I dont agree with, then I would prefer him to be monk because the monk has more raidwide utitily. So, back to my actual question (which is not "which is better"), are monks a boring class to play ? Do you really just sit there auto attacking ?

Splorch

The bruiser buff also adds +90(rounded up like .4 of a point or something) to CA damage. If your raid is scout/fighter heavy(usually 2 whole group of them are in guild's raid) then every single one of them is getting a decent dps buff. If theres 14 some odd fighters with CA, figure 90 damage per combat art use = 1260 damage every time each one of them uses 1 attack. mutliply that by the fact most people will go through anywhere from 50-100 Ca's on a longer battle, your looking at some decent damage increases raid wide. This also helps out the MT greatly because A) he is putting out more damage and B) his hate transfer scout buddy is putting out more damage.

2 Cents from a bruiser

PS, dont pester a bruiser to betray. We play a bruiser because we want to play one, and that is our cup of tea.

Mimn

Let him be a bruiser. If the balance of your raid force needs him to be a monk then relook at your build. Where he is a class he doesnt want to be he is not going to have fun. Trust me i have been down this road. In the end you are going to end up with a frustrated or burned out monk which you will need to replace and regear back up.

Now as of his argument I disagee with totally. I feel as a monk i am timing things even more and pushing even more buttons due to the faster ca refresh. If that is his holdup he will be surprised at how much there is to do on a monk. Also spot heals and tsunami plus peel when tank dies make for some great uses of monks. The goal to great monk dps is not missing auttoattack while keeping a constant flow of orange numbers flying upwards.

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TheGimpMonk

You will lose drag if you have him betray to a monk. That ability is enough of a reason to keep him as a bruiser.

You are trading apples for oranges. Besides it'll still be easier to place a bruiser in a raid group than a monk... 180 self buffed haste anyone?

Muraha

Drag = Peel ? No?

Monks get shitloads of self buffed haste. You whinge all the time you have too much. A monk will slot in nicely with a couple of mages a troub and fury. Lots of melee procs and they provide groupwide deagro. You did read the original post right?

Cheeky

blasphemy.

melee group or bust.

e2a: monk's are not boring. they are very intense to play well, timing is crucial and we have almost always got something to cast.

i've played a lot and monk is the most fun for me.

and the self-buffed haste is an awesome thing, people who think it's stupid should shut the fuck up before we lose it.

brentiger

They are both fun, can't go wrong in my opinion.

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