AA builds in RoK - Page 3

Drytan · 01-05-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagansaint

Please. PLEASE.

Space out your post, the wall of text just hurts to read.

Sorry, but that is not exactly how avoidance works. Heroics and Epics gain increasingly larger hit bonuses the stronger they are. That avoidance you listed is how it works for no arrow mobs and is spot on. Versus stronger content that flat +skill avoidance boosts are contested, the stronger the mob, the more contested the avoidance.

As for aggro? Nothing in the Stamina line will help you maintain aggro. If you are losing single target aggro and/or want to talk about the benefits of Mantis Bolt to help hold aggro, you lose. If you cannot keep single target aggro you fail.

AE aggro is where brawlers have problems when tanking. Guess what? You said the only line that increases AE aggro sucks. Crane Twirl provides much more hate per second than your AE taunt, to everything around you, not just to the encounter you are targeting, but to every mob within range. Then using Crane Flock will net you more AE, true blue type AE, aggro than any other ability.

Going by your suggestion of why that is the best tank spec, you didn't even give it for your reasoning.

Strength line, specifically Str4, gives you much more avoidance, uncontested even, than any of the other lines, making it a better choice than any of the other lines for tanking in your reasoning.

I would agree, Str/Agi/Int would be the best at avoiding taking damage. It would be the best tanking set up period. If the Strength line was fixed to be usable in practical situations.

Ill agree with one thing you said, str line has the best avoidance ability. But just like wisdom its not worth it to spend the points for the ability thats good (assuming you don't use your bare fists). Other than that, I didn't say a damn thing about single target taunts. In fact, I have no fuckin problem keeping aggro from anything other than a warlock or a ranger who crits rain of arrows. You didn't read my post, I said, regardless of your AA setup their are only two or three classes that should give you trouble on multiple aggro. Which in lamens terms means, it doesn't fucking matter if you have 8 points in crane twirl and crane sweep a warlock will still steal your aggro every damn time. But hey, atleast you didn't give some bullshit response where you didn't know half of wtf you were talking about. This discussion has promise, maybe even I can learn something from it. Please continue if anyone else has some output.

edit: BTW your right I have no fucking idea what kind of bonus epics or heroics gain. I know how the shit works in its base principal, and its all skill level vs skill level. I dont give a damn about raiding thats why im on a pvp server. But then again monks shouldn't be tanking raid mobs, so that shouldn't even be a discussion.

Apheod · 01-05-2008, 11:08 PM

i'm in all instanced gear and i have no problems holding agro off warlocks pushing 3k+ in instances. have you ever specced wis/agi/int, and compared zonewide parse breakdowns? do you have any idea how much dps crane twirl does? i dont see anything in the sta line that can even approach the utility and straight dps of wis. and crane flock? (2min 41sec, not 3 min) that's just nasty.

the one thing that i do agree with you about is parry>max hp.

pagansaint · 01-06-2008, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apheod

the one thing that i do agree with you about is parry>max hp.

Yes, yes it is. But that is because parry is the first check in the avoidance checks, the better your parry check is the less percent of checks your other abilities which are easier to gear and boost have to check against.

But... parry is not from the Sta line. Deflection is. +Deflection is the only thing coming from the Stamina line that is worth having. It takes 12 AAs to get to a worthwhile part of the Stamina line, while it takes 8 (4 if you want to argue for the knockdown and the 100% damage avoidance during that time for heroic content in Wis2) to reach a tank improving part of the Wisdom line.

But sorry to say to Drytan, a Warlock only steals your aggro every time if you are slack ass. Hell most of the time, unless the warlock is being a dumb ass that can't play his class and just mashes the big AE buttons, a warlock won't steal your aggro. A wizard doing fusion has a better chance of doing so.

But thats knowing how it works for all content. Not just throwing something out there and then not knowing like Drytan just said he did.

Anjin · 01-06-2008, 07:07 AM

WIS 4-4-8-8-2
INT 4-4-8-3
AGI 4-4-8-6-2

Shame to pump 6 in Defence over Parry (in Int line), but Altruism seems to work well for me.

Traxor · 01-06-2008, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apheod

i'm curious why everyone only puts 7 points into baton flurry. is there no real gain from maxing it out? also about the max health. i see most people put 8 there, but these are all raid specs, is it not that big a deal as far as grouping goes and really just there for taking the big hits in raids?

extra hp never hurt anyone really, and yes i agree baton furry is pointless to go beyond 4 points but w/e. As long as you have crits, Crane twirl, and Crane flock. It doesnt really matter.

on eof.

I plan to put 1 point into our amends avoid buff and 1 point in mongoose stance for fun. 2 points in my small punch to max out ca damage.

I played with combination its like 2 dps. it got nurfed to hard to even fool with for me anyways.

and yea , since monks can tank in instances in offensive choosing the , " kill it before it kills you" tactic. Get a good healer, a bard, and stack your group with leet dps, only aggro gankers. I never have a problem keeping aggro. And we finish coa in like 10 min . >;)

Apheod · 01-06-2008, 08:01 AM

i looked at a few zonewide parse breakdowns from raids and groups and combination was between 1 and 2 percent of my zonewide, even with macros, so i 86'd that shit.

changed my brawler tree around a bit, now its 478 agi, 46841 wis and 44881 int.

i wasn't arguing that extra hp would hurt anyone, just that it seems like an extremely small boost, .5% per point. i see folks putting 8 points there and leaving parry at 4, which baffles me. another thing i dont particularly understand, is raid monks putting points into sprint, why?

edit - not trying to say that after 3 months of mainly grouping with this class, and being my first melee class that i know better than raiders who've been playing the class since launch. i'm sure those points are where they are for a reason, i just dont see it.

Anjin · 01-06-2008, 08:26 AM

I will probably put the 2 points from health into parry, but 6 is the minimum as it's not worth putting 2 into anything else on the WIS branch to get crane flock.

Apheod · 01-06-2008, 12:16 PM

for raiding no, the knockdown on crane sweet doesn't affect epics, and the damage gain is negligible. for grouping however, the slightly longer knockdown time is nice.

mattmandude · 01-07-2008, 04:11 PM

In Drytan's defense, Wis line is a waste of points beyond the knockback, if you're speccing for PvP.

Since that's where the guy likes to excel (and excell he does), the spec he posted adds good input to those who pvp. Though if you're going down the Stamina line for pvp, I'd say that getting Mantis Leap is an extremely good idea. Even the endline Int ability can help a lot in certain pvp fights, but it's very circumstantial, and also depends a little on play style I suppose.

Until I get an AA swapper though, I'm definitely going down the wisdom line, and putting 0 into the Stamina line, since I'm needed more as a raider and not a pvper in guild =)

Trumak · 01-07-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drytan

But then again monks shouldn't be tanking raid mobs, so that shouldn't even be a discussion.

I'm sorry why is that exactly? We are fighters and fighters are tanks. You're fucking ignorant if you think brawlers shouldn't/can't tank.