Prucop

because monk v bruiser is just retarded, every class or subclass or whatever it is in eq2s retarded system has some obvious fucking difference, scouts have utility vs dps or aoe dps vs single target or mage buffs vs melee buffs.

actually fuck it all arch types have that kind of shit, except for fucking monks and bruisers, its retarded that brawlers are a good and evil class, it should be the same fucking neutral class

damager

Looking at the mechanics of each you couldnt base who is better on the criteria listed as it comes down to the length of the fight.

it looks to be bruiser has harder CA hits but longer recast which makes them look like more DPS on short fights. Bruiser would look to be higher DPS in high end group that has fast kills which from the people Ive seen posting are from guilds that match that criteria so would lean on the bruiser.

Longer fights especialy where power becomes an issue the monk will walk away in DPS usually passing the casual scouts.

Blanka

That is completely incorrect.

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damager

Please elaborate.

Is it not correct that monk has way more self haste (I run at 160 haste 117% self buffed do not have my M1 haste spell)? Is it not correct the bruiser has higher hitting CA's? Is it not correct if both out of power and can not cast CAs the monk would not surpass the less hasted bruiser utilzing weapons of the same stats?

Blanka

Bruiser benefit with higher ca's as they can raise their +ca damage much higher, they also will as a result crit higher. Straight auto attack it has nothing to do with whether you are a bruiser or a monk it has more to do with your gear, but monks do have an advantage there because we don't need to get a haste item and can put a better item for us in one spot. However, creating some made up place where bruiser and monk have no power and saying monk dps is better on a long fight is completely stupid. Fact is bruisers have higher dps potential no matter how long the fight is. Creating certain one off scenarios where we might out dps them is completely fucking retarded. Bruiser always have been better at dps. As always it still comes down to the player, buffs/debuffs, and gear. But for dps potential bruisers are above monks plain and simple.

EDIT: Thats not even mentioning their raidwide, it benefits them dps wise much more then our casting speed one.

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damager

See this is where reality differs from the 10% of players like yourself that are in high end raiding guilds and the 90% of the rest of us that are not. Do you realize a large number of raids may only have a single dirge and maybe 1 more power regen in the whole raid fighting a X4 could take as long as 10 minutes and yes I will and have passed assassins that where 2k dps ahead of me 5 minutes prior in the fight while we are both out of power just auto attacking, Not to mention fast pulling in SoH with no power regen and me and assassin again auto attacking through 2-3 fights while power rebuilds. To you this may sound obsurd but it is a reallity for the rest of us.

Secondly, we are not talking about gear we are talkin about the mechanics of each class which is exactly how I described it and obviously you agree that bruiser has higher CA's and alot less haste and even though it doesnt happen in your world you agree that two of them auto attacking the hasted monk with equal weapons would pull ahead. A monk has naturaly almost 100 more haste i do believe.

Lastly, I have never been out parsed by a bruiser that didnt have way higher gear.

Blanka

You don't know wtf you are talking about. Here is the simple fact, when monks were made into the haste class it limited our growth. Pretty much every class can get to cap on haste that needs to get to the cap having haste isn't anything special dumbass. You assassin sucks btw if you are outparsing him and your raid fucking sucks if shits taking you 10 minutes to kill one expansion later. It is probably because they make excuses like you are doing now instead of actually performing. Let me ask you, as a monk and most monks are in the same boat who have 200 dps mod 200 haste capped +ca capped crit and capped da capped where is the area to improve in dps? We pretty much are down to procs. Its not just a monk problem but with us being so extreme into the haste area thats one less place we have where we can improve. And don't give the fucking excuse of you don't raid shit, you already said you were in palace, I probably kill maybe 4-5 mobs you arent killing.

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malos

To my understanding many monks are at the 150 points of haste which only leaves them 50 points to grow before capped. Most bruisers only get haste via equip and any group memeber that has it. Dps ceiling for a bruiser in haste is much higher than what a monk can get because again most monks are already so close.

Its not saying that every bruiser will always out dps a monk either, but currently the potential for the bruiser is better. Now that the offensive changes are taking place that could possibly change big time in the monks favor.

If you are 160 points of haste and now getting a 960-1330 damage proc rated at 4.0 ppm then your monk will be doing much better than any bruiser and not consuming near the power to do it. Bruisers don't get any type of self haste and their proc is close to monk damage but the proc chance is lower at 2.4. So advantage monk...at least in auto attack damage.

Unless bruiser combat arts are getting an increase with the update there will be nothing (other than group/raid buffs) that a bruiser has that can really offer to be consistant at dps.

Looks like offensively bruisers will not shine once the changes take place compaired not just to the monk but to all fighters in general.

Couch

We get less benefits in real haste due to diminishing return. At 150 haste, we have about 117% and at 200 haste, we have 125%.

In the early stage of eq2, it's not easy to get haste capped and there is no diminishing return when the cap is 100. Now, it's too easy for most players to get 130-150 haste in raid.

Haste should be our advantage in dealing dps. However, currently, it's almost none exist in raids.

Monk and bruiser dps gap in raid was never this bad, especially after the change of CA crit damage calculation. Even with the proc added in monk offensive stance on test server, bruisers dps is still better than monks.

On the test server, bruiser still has better dps, better tanking and better agro than monk.

gungo

dunno how that is possible considering that bruisers got hosed in the stance consolidation. We lost alot of our dps by stacking manhandle with offensive. Our offensive and mid proc was nerfed in proc rate. Our dps is lower in all 3 stances on test. Furthermore monks were given a higher proc rate and damage proc on their off and mid stance. So not onyl does the monsk proc damage out parse bruisers but they still have the luxary of the additional haste.

It defintely seems like there is a major bug in the implementation of these stances for bruisers becuase there is absolutely no comparison between us and other fighters. I am talking a major difference.

In def stance monk has a 10ppm while bruisers have a 1.8ppm
Mid stance has a 1.0ppm while monks have a 1.8ppm for the same damage
Off stance has a 2.4 ppm while monks have a 4.0ppm for the same damage.

Furthemore in the consolidation i lost str/agi/melee skills/ defensive skills and the damage from manhandle proc (which also got reduced in the merge into defensive)

This is jsut in comaparison to monks but every single fighter was given a proc in addition to thier original stance buffs that outaparses and out damages bruisers. Zerks got an encounter proc for a bit less damage but a higher proc rate, guards got a proc for more damage on a higher proc rate, sk and paladins as well got procs that outparses bruisers now. ( I will not even get into the 100% proc rates of the new shadowknight abilites) In addition they each kept their stances effects and some got even more additions such as added combat art damage to the zekrs off stance proc or hate gain in defensive.

Bottom line is while every fighter got buffed we got nerfed.
Hell i wouldnt complain to much as a monk right now considering you have one of the only and highest transfers left in the game. You can master 2 your avoid buff and get a single aa for a 10% agro transfer. I wouldnt complain to much if i were you.