Rayche

I'm a retard. Thanks ;)

oddyophile

Due to the diminishing returns curve, Mystic STA debuffs do not give as much health as the Defiler buffs. Also our Tendils of Horror is a debuffing proc that is triggered when the target is attacked. It's used to maximum effect when it's on a tank. While a Mystic may have Oberon, Defilers have Spiritual Circle - a one minute long limited pet that casts a regenerating ward every few seconds. Currently mine is warding for 741/tick. While the mystic is stunned I can continue debuffing the mob and warding the tank.

Ancestry is a sticky subject. Where is it more useful - on the tank, or on the DPS? Our tank has no problem with aggro, so we give the Mystic with all his melee buffs and Ancestry to the melee dps group.

In my experience Mystics do better in melee groups. Our OT mystic hits 2.4k dps on some encounters (EH third floor trash. No, he did not get Time Compression.) His AA enhancements are used to their fullest being in a pure melee DPS group, and his heals are great for when the OT needs to be kept standing.

At the moment we roll with 3 shaman - 2 Mystics and 1 Defiler (me). When those Mystics are not healing I expect them to be DPS'ing. That way they are never bored.

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Asrion

One can also never forget how clutch Voice of the Ancients is for the MT group. Basically a group unstun/unstifle/unmez that can be cast while under those effects. I think the main reason Mystics get put in the OT group is that most of their bonuses are cross raid i.e. Torpor, Bolster, Whereas Defiler bonuses are group only i.e. Voice of the Ancestors, Tendrils of Horror, Spiritual Circle. While ancestry is a good buff for the MT it is also very incredible for a scout, whereas tendrils(a reprisal debuff on mobs cast on fighter only in group) etc. is not.
Never underestimate the power conservation of a Defiler as well, on fights that are long or drain power it is much easier to keep lots of mana as a Defiler and not have to rely on manaflow/shards There are indeed more things to consider indeed including level of spell quality and player behind the keyboard.

Rayche

Spiritual circle dies to AE's just as easily as Umbral Attendant (The Mystic equivelant). It's a shame that they don't make those two abilities immune to AE's.

While Ancestry would indeed increase scout DPS, it would also make them ripping fools (Especially against a guardian tank). Maintaining aggro on the MT increases raid-wide DPS, rather than getting one scout killed over and over.

The ability to strip stuns from a group is awesome. (One of the things I like about Templars.) But I leave that to the templar.

One critical thing Defilers can't remove from a group is arcane, which we get hit with quite often. So I still see it as a wash.

I would give my left acorn for Canibalize though, but Manafont, Mana tap weapons and FT 35 will suffice for now.

Pinski

First, if your scout is ripping from your tank, your tank needs to get a better hate-gain group setup for him or he just sucks.

2nd, templars can't fucking cure stuns, they can only make you immune to them through sanctuary.

3rd, You can kill most mobs in the game without the proper group cure in the MT group just fine, so arcane isn't a big deal.

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Rayche

Hey, fucking thanks for that fucking awesome fucking input.

I guess fucking stun fucking immunity was what the fuck I was fucking talking about. Thanks for fucking clearing that the fuck up.

You can kill most mobs in the game without proper groups period.

It's the Min-Maxers that start making the game more of a burden than a game anyway. And fuck the fuckin' fuck outta them fuckers.

/Peace

oddyophile

I use Spiritual Circle between ae's. It may not get its full use time wise, but it gets plenty of use.

We have a scout and a bruiser getting Ancestry, and our Guardian tank holds aggro just fine.

Cannibalize + ritual = awesome. You know what else is good? Maelstrom + ritual for those rare times the group is running out of power.

The stun break proves its value on almost every raid.

We may not group arcane, but to borrow a phrase from you, I leave that to the Templar.

You don't need to have a Defiler in the main tank group, but we're better suited for that role. It's already been said - a lot of Mystic abilities can be used out of group. This makes them better suited for OT groups. Our raw Health buffs and target-in-group buffs make us better suited for the MT.

I wouldn't mind getting tossed out of the MT group, though. I want the mage group =)

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Rayche

Honestly, I prefer to be in whatever group my Guardian wife is in ;) So since she's often the off tank, I'm good with that.

I'm still unconvinced that there's a better Shaman for MT/OT duty. I slip in Umbral Attendant between AE's where applicable as well.

We are all of the opinion that more than 2 Shamans is overkill though, which I had suspected anyway. ;)

So why do you like the Mage group?

P.S.
When Kunark comes out and we're offered the chance to spec "Beastlord" I'll go with that. (Or at least I can dream.)

oddyophile

Like I said, we roll with 3 shaman at the moment. It may be overkill, but the Bruiser in G4, and whichever lucky DPS class in G3 is getting it, love Ancestry. Also all the melee classes love the ability buffs from the mystics.

Defiler DPS is done almost entirely through spells. Mystics get 3 or 4 debuffing spells, while our debuffs are split between our 4 non damaging debuffs, our 3 dots (which are also debuffs), and our smite (also has a debuff component) resulting in 8 spells we need to cast on a mob to get it fully debuffed. Add to that our Bane of Protection (a proc cast on enemies that causes them to ward their target on succesful attack), and there are at least 9 hostile spells I can use to proc more damage. Give me a mage group with a Troubador, and I'll have all the buffs I need to do some decent DPS.

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bobz69

so...do you have turrets? or down syndrom or something? ok heres what you need to do....take that heroin needle out of your warm, kiss your guardian wife goodbye (who btw, looses aggro to a scout depending on whether or not they have ancestry, is terrible) and go find yourself a nice treatment facility. When you think you have your life back in order...come back and dont be a douche. If you make stupid or incorrect comments, your going to be corrected...so dont be dumb. That is all

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Lol, then make it right the first time you stupid fucks..

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