Rayche

Ok, there was a time when you could find yourself as the only shaman in a raid force. (Heck, I remember being the only shaman between three raid alliances...)

Now it seems every 3rd person has a shaman alt they are leveling to fill the "Void".

They already booted me from the MT group in favor of the defiler alt. So I don't even have group wards to cast, or Oberon.

We have 3 Shamans (2 Mystics and a Defiler) now in our 24 man raid force. (With a 4th person that wants to bag their Fury for his/her defiler alt.)

As I notice my wards being over written, and I notice myself over writing a TREMENDOUS amount of wards myself, I begin to wonder, is 3 shamans too many?

I mean, our slows don't stack, and overwrite each other. Our wards don't stack, our buffs don't stack.

I'm starting to wonder if I should just retire my Mystic and finish leveling my 66 Conjuror since we only have one of those... I'm feeling rather underutilized and redundant, and I don't like that.

Thoughts? Anybody have some solid numbers on Shaman stacking?

Pinski

Yes, 3 shamans is a waste.

__________________
All of the seasons and all of the days
All of the reasons why I've felt this way
So long...
So long
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Droogs

Usually there is a defiler in MT group and Mystic in OT group. ( This is because Defilers have better mt buffs, as im sure you already know )

Warding over someone is a waste of power, OT shaman should concentrate on debuffing and keeping his/her OT(if needed) and group warded and healed.

Any more than that is a waste, agreed.

Rayche

Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.

For some reason however, I can't let this comment go unanswered. "Usually there is a defiler in MT group and Mystic in OT group."

Mystics offer much more survivability IMHO than a Defiler. Our persistent wards prevent physical damage, defilers prevent magical damage. In 5 hits this outweighs the 400-500 extra HP the Defiler can give.

Add to that, that Mystics with Ancestry can increase the proc rate on all hate increasing items and the fact that Defilers don't have Oberon Barrier, and Soul ward can be cast outside group and I don't see the same thing. (Our MT usually finds himself in power loss problems more often than death, which Mystics also buff more of.)

But.. I digress. Each raid force to their own. This isn't about Mystic versus Defilers. I'm just thinking we have too many Sha-People period.

P.S.
My wife is the OT group tank, so I actually do enjoy being with her, I just had to express my thoughts on that.

Xonerate

As to Defilers vs Mystics in the MT group, The vast majority of people putting together raid forces are using simplistic rules of thumb. Actually looking at your specific situation and making intelligent decisions requires effort and that is in short supply.

I have been in several pickup raids where a noob mastercrafted equipped defiler has been put in the MT group over me, a Fabled nearly fully mastered Mystic. I don't even try and fight the battle.

People are looking for simple answers to complex questions. I'm sure the raid leaders thought themselves quite clever for "knowing" that defilers belong in the MT group over Mystics.

I personally don't really care whether I am in the MT group or not. People are going to continue to make simplistic choices based on the most easily observable stats. We don't have like it, but it is reality.

-X

Rayche

LOL that's pretty much exactly my situation. I'm almost all fabled and the only master I don't have is Torpor.

Noirsoldats

Firstly, to answer the OP. Depends on the encounter and the raid force. EG: PHH we use 3-4 shamans and can kill him in 2-3min because none of our DPS dies. Generally though we roll with One or two. Always me (Defiler) in the MT group and sometimes a Defiler in the OT group. (We only have on Mystic in the guild and her play times are erratic)

Secondly, off topic as it is, the reason I prefer to have the Mystic in an off group instead of the MT group is because a vastly larger number of their heal/buff abilities are useable cross-raid. almost NOTHING of the defilers is. As for ""Mystics with Ancestry can increase the proc rate on all hate increasing items"" and several other arguments you gave you failed to mention abilities of defilers that counter them. Defilers have Ritual of Alacrity that works like a Jesters cap of sorts that we use on the MT for faster casting, recast, and reuse. Has a more reliable hate-increse ability as it shortens the recast of things like Reinforcement and Rescue, etc. And our group mit buff wards against all spell damage as opposed to yours that wards against all physical damage. I think these are just interchangeable as far as damage is concerned.

Now, in my defense before I get flamed out of this forum I was a Mystic for 70 levels, raided as a mystic, betrayed to Defiler recently and enjoy every minute of it. We are both very capable healers, we both have our strong points. I would trade my left nut to get Torpor or Bolster back. But I have abilities that offset the loss. I personally feel that mystics and Defilers are equally suited for the MT roll. But get over it, I'm not giving up my spot! *cough* J/K. :P

Rayche

LOL good points.

Although, Ritual of Alacrity is a "Shaman" class AA ability and I have that as well so pbththth!

It all really boils down to who's playing the toon really.

And who you're raiding with.

P.S.
Who's PHH? I'm drawing a blank on that mob. ;)

Droogs

Pumpkin headed horseman, Contested in Loping.

Kaejal

Hate to jump on the band wagon here, but anymore then 2 Shammys be they defilers or Mystics is a total waste. You end up countering each other or simply wasting a ton of mana.

As to Main Tank vrs. Off tank personally I believe it has to do with the player behind the toon. They are both equally awesome in the main tank group for different reasons. I personally find myself in the main tank group about 80% of the time and the 20% I am not I am switched to the off tank group simply because the encounter requires that with the mem whipe the OT has to have a killer healer setup in his group to take over... this is by no means a dink on the defiler in our raids, it's just that I am fully mastered and he is not and I have been playing my Mystic longer in raids then he has his defiler.

I am sure somewhere down the road he will be on equal footings with me and we will swap back and forth interchangeably.

Chengai Bonsai
Butcherblock