STR vs. STA - line - Page 3

ecoskii · 02-05-2009, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanemundi

Stamina Line is the way to go most of the time, but keep both setups on your respec mirror just in case you feel you need to switch it up for a particular mob or zone. Coagulate is basicly a 1000+HP buff for group, and a 80% casting speed increase on cures is very useful, especially for the slower cast group cure. Being more likey to block physical attacks with a shield isnt bad either. STR line has advantages, most notably the AoE blocker, but there is no comparison, STA line is far superior. I would rather have 6000 more HP in my group than an extra chance to prevent an AoE that the rest of the raid seems able to deal with. In addition, most raids should already have AoE blocker classes like Wardens and Troubs, and/or someone who knows how to work ACT and calls the timers on the "oh wow" AoEs to joust or block. I also hotbar the Star of Malice, and just click it incase we get into a fight with constant AoEs.

not convinced at all

TSO aes one-shot mages under 10k hp - the regular chance of an additional 6-800hp ward or an entire ae-avoid outweighs the extra 1000unconcious hp. Many aes are zw - gl jousting them

with STR line you can still have enough points to get 40% cast speed increase if you want it - and it doesn't affect group cure at all....

i'd be surprised if bards are bladedance spec normally - they hate it and the recast is too long to be any use except for initial pulls

wardens tortoiseshell is useful - been awhile since i was in a group with one but even with JC it is a 2min recast?

I have STA on my mirror but more tempted by Dogdog and RoA for my heal spec

Sanizy · 02-05-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoskii

with STR line you can still have enough points to get 40% cast speed increase if you want it - and it doesn't affect group cure at all....

You can get full 80% casting speed if you drop heal crits (agi line). Mystics are heavy melee though so maybe this isnt as much of an option as it is for defilers idk.

Dagorlad · 02-05-2009, 05:20 PM

Fact is the dog is a nice to have but spending 24 points is just missing out to much good stuff.

Tempted to go Strength, Stamina and rest in Agility in alternative spec.

I rather drop RoA then Coagulate. Bet some mages/tanks will disagree on it.

Arcanemundi · 02-08-2009, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoskii

Not Convinced at all. TSO aes one-shot mages under 10k hp - the regular chance of an additional 6-800hp ward or an entire ae-avoid outweighs the extra 1000unconcious hp. Many aes are zw - gl jousting them

My guild has a Fury solo heal the mage group, and she does great at healing them by herself. Plus, Furies have way better buffs for mages imo, Mystics should be in fighter groups because of our mythical DA proc and our STR buff. I guess the Chanter class is usually in the OT and MT groups, but mages are one of the few classes that can be effective from great distances, and are usually at max range to avoid the AoEs the rest of us are forced to deal with. I even give them the single target health/power buff that I usually have on me if I think they need it more. However, if I found myself in the mage group, I definately wouldn't spec STR line above STA line, since the short range ward and AoE prevent the dog procs is only on group members that are close to the dog, it seems like 10-20 feet away, when he gets a bite in on the named. Plus, it seems like mages allways have the least amount of health in the raid, and they also get into trouble from wearing their chokers, so I would definately go with Coagulate to help them stay alive.

I don't get what all the buzz is about AoEs being so constant and threatening, and as a result, I am not convinced of your point either Ecoskii. However, it is as if some Shamans have convinced themselves that without the AoE proc they, and their healer companions, couldn't cure or heal through AoEs in TSO. If that was the case, every raiding guild would have at least 3, if not 4, Shaman. Many guilds somehow get by with two or three, one in the MT group, one in the OT group, and maybe one in the scout group. I think the main use for a Shaman is to handle spike damage, and also for our unique single target and group buffs.

According to the up-to-date raid progression thread on Splitpaw server, my guild has cleared as much content as your guild has, and we only have two shamans, one of which (me) doesn't spec STR line. So, three groups of my raid force do not have a dog procing wards or AoE blockers, and we clear the same content, how can that be? Since, you and I have both seen enough of the new expansion now to have an opinion on at least half a dozen named fights, I will say this to you Ecoskii: "On every named that my guild, and yours, has taken down, I have not lost one person in my group because an AoE was not blocked." In fact, now that I think about it, as long as everyone follows the strat, we can take those named down without even one death. Our MT Defiler specs STR line, and I do not. I have filled in for her many times, and have not seen any noticeable difference between her performance, and mine. We both keep the MT tank up, and both parse about the same.

Unless I am spamming my single and group ward to keep a tank in my group up, I usually have my emergency group ward ready, and my main group ward is always up and at 70-100% health. My group heal can hit each member for 5000+ so if my group ward goes down, and my group actually gets hit with something, I get that group ward back up ASAP and I am on that group heal in a couple seconds and activating the Mythical if things get out of hand. The other healer in my group usually beats me to the heal, but that's their job. I might throw a single target heal and Stoicism at a random group member if I think the MT or OT doesn't need it. If I know an AoE is going to hit, I also usually activate the Mythical right before, so people bounce back quick. If you have problems keeping mages alive, and your MT is stable, put Stoicism on the mage, it works great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoskii

...with STR line you can still have enough points to get 40% cast speed increase if you want it - and it doesn't affect group cure at all....

Thanks for all the corrections on that, I got it now

. Modified my original post as well to omit that error I made.

Gisallo · 02-08-2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanemundi

I don't get what all the buzz is about AoEs being so constant and threatening, and as a result, I am not convinced of your point either Ecoskii. However, it is as if some Shamans have convinced themselves that without the AoE proc they, and their healer companions, couldn't cure or heal through AoEs in TSO. If that was the case, every raiding guild would have at least 3, if not 4, Shaman. Many guilds somehow get by with two or three, one in the MT group, one in the OT group, and maybe one in the scout group. I think the main use for a Shaman is to handle spike damage, and also for our unique single target and group buffs.

Hows about the wards it procs too? Sometimes I forget to send him in on the attack in just instances and he can be a not too shabby part of the heal parse. My belief has always been better to prevent the damage from ever happening than trying to give yourself a cushion if you get smacked big time <shrug>

Verrie77 · 02-09-2009, 05:35 AM

I would much rather see the Mystic dog hand out a 500 heal with each bite instead of that 500 ward. That would perhaps make up for that crappy Lunar Attandant.

Lint · 02-09-2009, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verrie77

I would much rather see the Mystic dog hand out a 500 heal with each bite instead of that 500 ward. That would perhaps make up for that crappy Lunar Attandant.

Wards >>>> Heals. If my group is at 100% that heal proc does 0 hps, however a ward would still get applied and when the group does take damage it gets used.

On the subject of the bear, the defiler spiritual circle now wards raid wide. From some very quick testing our bear is still group only. I think the description of them both is comparable, therefore would be nice if they could make the bear raid wide as well, would make it maybe worth casting if they did.

Aviendha · 02-09-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lint

Wards >>>> Heals. If my group is at 100% that heal proc does 0 hps, however a ward would still get applied and when the group does take damage it gets used.

On the subject of the bear, the defiler spiritual circle now wards raid wide. From some very quick testing our bear is still group only. I think the description of them both is comparable, therefore would be nice if they could make the bear raid wide as well, would make it maybe worth casting if they did.

Agreed!

Arcanemundi · 02-09-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gisallo

Hows about the wards it procs too? Sometimes I forget to send him in on the attack in just instances and he can be a not too shabby part of the heal parse. My belief has always been better to prevent the damage from ever happening than trying to give yourself a cushion if you get smacked big time <shrug>

Good point, and I would agree if your heal parses matched mine, but when ever I have specced STR line and compared parses, the dog ward is usually less than 2% of my wards and heals, which 'is' shabby considering the points you have to spend to get the ability. A few other mystics and defiliers have posted the same weak heal parse for the dog on this forum and the Defilier forums. AND Yes, I did send him in on every fight, behind the mob, and after the initial AoE went off. Most likely the problem is I am warding my group enough to not require the dog's ward to kick in that much, or I am not speccing DPS abilities in my AA trees like 21 points in Combat line and points in the Shadow Tree abilities like Ancient Pedigree, etc...

Like I said on other threads, I am not a melee Mystic like some of you are, so I spend every second of my time in fights queing up wards, heals, buffs, debuffs, and as a result focus more on my ward's health and less on DPS. If we are taking on a hard boss, I would guess that less than a couple times every raid night I, or someone else, might land in the purple zone, and when it happens we pull them out of it really quick and as a result have learned to appreciate Coagulate. One of the advantages of Coagulate is the person saved does not have to rebuff themselves and the group when they come out of it, and they don't get power drained like when they actually do die and get rezzed. They get right back into the fight. The ward the dog throws out is random, ranged based, and small, and would not really sell me on the STR line as much as the AoE prevent does, although, in the end, it seems like all the health and healing realted abilites in the STA line (Increases to Stamina, Block, Cast Speed, and Unconcious Health) are better as a whole for my healer, than the coulple healing abilities in the STR line are (Proc Ward and AoE prevent.) From my point of view, there is both a quantifiable superiority in wards and HP buffs in STA line, and also a unmeasurable qualifiable superiority in how a few abilities in STA line contributes to a raid fight such as quicker single target cure cast speed.

The normal wards, proc wards, and heals I cast are adequate to take the spike damage or AoEs we get from time to time, but every now and then someone gets agro, or is in the wrong place at the wrong time, and gets a big hit. I would much rather I had 1100 unconcious health buffering him, and everyone else in the group, instead of sporatic short range 500 point ward that may, or may not, be on them. In the end, if your a good healer, it won't make that big of a difference to go down the whole line with STR line or STA line, but it does make some difference, at least to me. On the other hand, if I was melee spec, I would probably go with STR line to get the haste, strength, and procing wards, since I wouldn't be spamming wards as often.

Aviendha · 02-09-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanemundi

Good point, and I would agree if your heal parses matched mine, but when ever I have specced STR line and compared parses, the dog ward is usually less than 2% of my wards and heals, which 'is' shabby considering the points you have to spend to get the ability. A few other mystics and defiliers have posted the same weak heal parse for the dog on this forum and the Defilier forums. AND Yes, I did send him in on every fight, behind the mob, and after the initial AoE went off. Most likely the problem is I am warding my group enough to not require the dog's ward to kick in that much, or I am not speccing DPS abilities in my AA trees like 21 points in Combat line and points in the Shadow Tree abilities like Ancient Pedigree, etc...

Like I said on other threads, I am not a melee Mystic like some of you are, so I spend every second of my time in fights queing up wards, heals, buffs, debuffs, and as a result focus more on my ward's health and less on DPS. If we are taking on a hard boss, I would guess that less than a couple times every raid night I, or someone else, might land in the purple zone, and when it happens we pull them out of it really quick and as a result have learned to appreciate Coagulate. One of the advantages of Coagulate is the person saved does not have to rebuff themselves and the group when they come out of it, and they don't get power drained like when they actually do die and get rezzed. They get right back into the fight. The ward the dog throws out is random, ranged based, and small, and would not really sell me on the STR line as much as the AoE prevent does, although, in the end, it seems like all the health and healing realted abilites in the STA line (Increases to Stamina, Block, Cast Speed, and Unconcious Health) are better as a whole for my healer, than the coulple healing abilities in the STR line are (Proc Ward and AoE prevent.) From my point of view, there is both a quantifiable superiority in wards and HP buffs in STA line, and also a unmeasurable qualifiable superiority in how a few abilities in STA line contributes to a raid fight such as quicker single target cure cast speed.

The normal wards, proc wards, and heals I cast are adequate to take the spike damage or AoEs we get from time to time, but every now and then someone gets agro, or is in the wrong place at the wrong time, and gets a big hit. I would much rather I had 1100 unconcious health buffering him, and everyone else in the group, instead of sporatic short range 500 point ward that may, or may not, be on them. In the end, if your a good healer, it won't make that big of a difference to go down the whole line with STR line or STA line, but it does make some difference, at least to me. On the other hand, if I was melee spec, I would probably go with STR line to get the haste, strength, and procing wards, since I wouldn't be spamming wards as often.

I am mostly heal spec'd and in raids, my focus is ALWAYS healing and never dps..actually it is rarely dps. However, I still feel that the ward from the dog is beneficial to some extent. Depending on how cure heavy the fight is, he is somewhere between 4-8% of my parses. but I also am always casting some sort of heal, ward, debuff...

With all the casting bonuses I get on gear, plus possibly coercive healing/time compression/tempo. The cast time on my cures is relatively fast. I honestly havent missed it. Coagulation may be helpful, but if the group is that low..more than likely they are gonna die (on occasion it will save someone). Just like the ward on the dog or AE avoid may.

Dont get me wrong. I think cure line/coagulation is nice..but I honestly havent missed it, since Ive dropped it. And the benefits from the dog line have been far superior. At least for me. And Im not a DPS mystic.....