Euron Greyjoy

So, recently (or at least, a few months ago) my guild decided to betray from Freeport to Qeynos. Me, being as shaman, and the guild being on Nagafen, I became a mystic. Having now learned the class quite thoroughly, it leaves me with a question:


Where is Sony going with the Shaman class in general?


Up until EoF, the two classes identities have pretty much been laid out -- aside from the pre-EoF stat caps. Let me lay it out for you:


Mystic: Mystics are built to be the defensive shaman. Oberon, Torpor, Bolster, Ancient Balm -- each of these abilities are in place of many Defiler class-defining spells (Torpor to F. Cannibalism, Bolster to Defile, Ancient Balm to Spiritual Circle, Oberon to Maelstrom), suggesting the class has been designed to be built around a more conservative playstyle, built for the MT group.

Defiler: Defilers are, generally, built to be more DPS and debuffs than the Mystic. Only with the oversight of the stat caps were they better buffers than Mystics. Defiler has many more debuffs in place of a few of the Mystic's heals, and the only thing that Mystic really has going for them are the encounter-debuffs (which are made up for by Defiler's Curseweaving line) and Shrieking Haze (melee-skill debuff), because very often the mob is at its DPS and/or attack speed debuff cap.


Now, in the terms of EoF -- Sony decided to swiftly take away the reason not to have a mystic in the MT group over defiler, and replaced it with a reason to definitely take the Defiler: the amazing AA lines presented to the defiler. Any line they pick is simply amazing, and helps out the MT group in one way or another (or, specifically, the MT).

For example: Soul Ward can be easily used as either an amazing emergency heal, or a huge buffer of a preheal for the main tank. The line used to take this ability also greatly reduces the Defiler's emergency cooldowns. As the Defiler's secondary choice, they can take Cannibalism -- combined with F. Cannibalise, the Defiler will never run out of power, on ANY fight. Even then, they can take Curseweaving (100% increase in casting speed, among other things), combined with either the Cloak of Hatred or V'ncenzi's cloak, and still be full power while having the mob fully debuffed.


Meanwhile, Mystic -- the more defensive shaman -- can choose from a Battle Priest line, a Rez line, the Buff line, or (my favorite) the Cure line.
a) Battle Priest: I don't see how Sony can justify adding a line that makes mystics into a mediocre melee class, at best. We still fall over from AE's, and the damage doesn't even match up to the Defiler's normal DPS.

b) Rez Line: There's not much I can say about this line; this is the line that I personally chose, aside from the buff line, as it gives us the ability to rez without rez-effects -- and it is an AE rez, which is, admittedly, quite nice.

c) Buff Line: This line speaks for itself. However, this line only serves to match us almost up to par to Defilers as far as buffing capabilities. It does increase our Oberon, which puts it at an amazing amount, however, since in a regular PVE setup there is no ideal opportunity to use this ability, except for rough spike damage on offtanks.

d) Cure Line: ... ... ... ... there aren't words as to express exactly how much a joke this line is. The ward is nice; however, I don't see it very often that the tank takes the exact same kind of damage from a DoT twice in that short a period. The final ability (single-target Sanctuary)... is dissapointing, compared to the Defiler's Voice of the Ancestors (cure from control effects). If the duration on this ability stayed the same and the recast lessened to maybe a minute, this line would actually become useful to an extent.


Honestly, if I wanted to play a DPS melee class, I would not have chosen a healer at character creation. The rez line is neat, but it does not make up for the fact that Mystics, as a class, do not get a effect-free rez. The cure line? Worthless. The buff line is a must for every mystic, and is the only real benefit to our class.

I'm not asking for amazing AA lines for the class, nor a nerf to Defiler's AA's. I'm only asking that mystics get their own identity, aside from OT healer and shotty DPS/debuffer. The ones the mystics have right now could be made to be actually useful to the group and raid. For example:


1) Buff Line: I don't know how to fix the issues that are still around concerning the stat caps, other than removing or lessening the 'soft cap' penalties. That, and the usefulness of Oberon could be increased greatly. Allowing Oberon to be used out of group would probably make it far too powerful, so instead, making the ticks happen more frequently, letting the duration stay the same, may increase its usefulness. That, and making the stun effect on it perhaps only a stifle, so moving while using it is still possible. Reducing the range on the spell to only a few meters when it is cast outside of group could greatly improve the spell (see my comments later on the Melee line).


2) Melee Line: Adding a proc-chance like Amazing Reflexes to the final ability in this line would help immensely. The only reason a Mystic can't really use this line on raids and fulfill the offtank role simultaneously is because of the AE's most mobs use. Allowing the Mystic to move freely while debuffing the mob and healing the offtank would improve the line greatly. Perhaps grant the melee proc chance (from bear form) to also siphon power from the target, thus countering the Defiler's Forced Cannibalise.


3) Cure Line: This line, I just don't have any idea about. The idea behind it is solid, however really lacks any true insight. An idea I was toying with involved this: making the duration on the ward much longer, and having the ward actually cure the debuff/dot when it lands, and then dispelling the ward. The ward would only stay effective until another dot/debuff of its own type landed, and then it would absorb some of the damage (if any), and cure most, if not all of the levels of that type.

The ultimate on the cure line seems useful, however, there are not many cases where immunity to control effects for a single person for such a short duration is beneficial. I suggest reducing the recast time, to nearly a minute or two minutes, or increasing the duration of the spell (Immunization).


My views on the class involve a melee healer, not in MT group, but is still of great help to the MT. Example: if Oberon were made to a stifle/root, like Maelstrom, and the melee line granted an immunity to AE proc chance, the Mystic could sit in AE range beside the tank and keep Torpor + Oberon up -- still not in the MT group -- while the other healers joust. The mystic could keep their debuffs up constantly, without the Defiler's aid from Curseweaving, while still healing the tank from a short range.

Regardless, the class needs some identity, other than being on the raid for Bolster and the rest of the Shaman's debuffs.


Flame away.

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Grozmok :: Rallos Zek :: Shadowknight :: Wudan
Mazrim :: Guk :: Defiler :: Ne Plus Ultra
Euron :: Nagafen :: Mystic :: The Kraken, Onyx, Vae Victis
Euron :: Unrest :: Coercer :: Equestrian Prep

Lyxson

/starts slow clap...*looks around*.../walks away.

But in all seriousness, Defilers are 10x better than Mystics atm...not too sure what can fix em, you made some good suggestions, though. For a PvE Mystic, do you think the rez line is better than the cure line?

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Kyrsten

While Oberon and Ancient Balm are really nice, Torpor and Bolster are both able to be cast on the MT from anywhere in the raid. When you compare those to what the defiler offers (and being that you WERE one, I am sure you recall what defilers do ), I can't remember a Mystic ever being the preferred class for the MT group when a Defiler of equal ability was available.

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Dirge / Defiler / Guardian

Lepios

You make some very good points but even before EoF came out defilers were the MT shaman. Effectivly they can out heal, out ward, and have a few tricks.

One of the biggest things i see that is insanely helpful to a defiler over a mystic is the use of voice of the ancestors. This allows then to break a stun, stifle ect... every 2 mins? (not sure about the time) but with EoF raid content having a ton of stifles and stuns, it very nice to have.

When it comes to power regen, defilers have us beat by a ton. Its bad enough they have forced canibalize which is effectivly flowing thought 60 that stacks with FT items then they have canibalize. We do have our manastone and tribal spiritualist hat but so do they. I honestly have asked for going on two expansions for devs to retool our class to be either more mana efficent or have a high regen lvl than the 0 have have.

When it comes to debuffs, I still think we hold out on this. We have decent DPS and attack speed debuffs which makes it easier for all the healers as the tank is getting hit for less and less often. Then we have our sta/str debuff and sta/mit debuff. These two are nice but alot of classes have bigger more specific debuffs.

I have found that honestly when it comes to the use of torpor and bolster, there useful but almost play spells. Torpor helps a little but does not really have anything super special. Bolster is nice for pulling, but if you are the only mystic you can not maintain the spell. What i have found interesting is pairing bolster with a necro before they lifeburn, it gives them a good boost to the spell.

You mention spiritual circle in your post. This spell, in my opinion has been over powered for a while, its a regenerating ward but its downside is if a mob AE's, it will die. I compare it to umbral attendant but there is not comparion to a 270 heal every 4 secs to a 500+ ward every 4 secs. This is a nice spell that defilers get over us even in limited uses.

and i really have never found an extreme use for ancient balm, its nice to cast when the MT says cure and you have no clue whats on him, but half the time when you want to use it most, you cant becasue you are stifled or stunned. Someone please correct me if you have found a use for it?

Ok now lets get to our lovely EoF AA's.

I personally am specced buff and combat line. The rez line is very pointless to me as I have 3 dirges that rez quicker than I have ever seen a person rez before. There like those goblins on april fools, its pretty crazy. Well beyond that, the cure line is worthless in my opinion. you have to pre-cast the cure to have the ward applied and its around 200ish (i have not been specced it for so long i forgot the exact number) and then if its a dot, once you cure the dot is gone in most instances.

With the combat line and and being in the off tank group, when the off tank has nothing to tank, i do dps and debuff if the MT is not being taken advantage of. I typically do 1300-1700 dps with a spear of the outer rim and have the occasional 1900-2000 parse. For me I would say this is decent, I have seen a defiler hit high numbers but its typically dependant on defile and how many caliginous corruptions they can put up.

There is alot of retooling to the class I would like to see done. Euron I applaud you for an excellant post, the reasons and ideas you mention before are some of the biggest reasons the mystic population is decreasing day by day.

Dagorlad

Overall i am happy with my Mystic

firstly i agree on some of the concerns in here but i disagree that we SHOULD be the maintank healer based on a text at character select.

i am sick of people saying bull that at character select we saw this message that said something in line like; "mystic's have powerfull buffs to benefit their allies" : Allies imo implies more then just buffing the maintank which is just one ally.

Our primary role is to keep the MT up, either by debuffs, bolstering, torpor or single target ward(s) this can be done from every group they put us in. In T6 we got shafted, in T7 we seem to be on par.

The choice for Defiler being in the mt group lies in the fact that Defilers buff more rough Health points and the chance to proc their debuff. Put a defiler in any non-tanking group you gimp many of its abilities. Put a mystic in any group and all the mt will miss is Oberon barrier which is a occassionel spell to use anyways.

Raiding is about min/maxing Take a defiler out of the mt group into a non tank group and you gimp their awesome abilities.
Want the same they can do? theres a betrayal quest in game for that.

With the expansions over the years our role turns more and more in keeping the Tank up without the necessity to be in their group. Bolster and torpor are two very powerfull spells and i am sure theres many defilers outthere that will trade some of their spells for it. if you can't see these being powerfull spells and bring a second Defiler into raid when you can bring a mystic theres something wrong.


All i read here and on the official boards is crap about Defilers being a better shaman. Newsflash! slack abit on the pull with your debuffs and see how much the defiler will struggle with keeping the mt group up. they have no better wards then us. And with a mob not being debuffed it will drop as fast as ours. the biggest benefit they got is a chance to proc a very nice dps debuff on one of their single target buffs. We are nothing without them and they have the same hard time without us.

I think the only reason people keep complaining about the differences is the PvP servers forcing them to become mystics.
I don't know much about PVP but can't your guild go exile and you can be a defiler?



When it comes to EoF lines theres not much choice then The buff line combined with either DPS line (my choice) or the cure line. anyone picking the Ressurect line on a PVE server should visit doctor phil for a council.




If i may suggest a few things to improve mystics would be:

- make the umbral attendant heal everyone on raid within the crappy 5m range. as for now this ability is a joke. When they change this expect to hear someone scream nerfe on the defiler boards. As most defilers won't see that the creature wont benefit us much as the next aoe will end its mere life anyways.

- make us less powerconsuming. without a constant feed from a chanter/bard we dry within seconds. I am so addicted to Shards and hearts nowadays my conjuror and necro asking me to go in rehab.


When it comes to loot progression it would be nice them adding a Fabled version of the Tribal spiritists hat as theres no hat i would use over it, the power for health is one of the reasons why i am still not wearing my Rougaroo hood over it.

just my 50c

peace out,

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Falik

Battle Priest: I don't see how Sony can justify adding a line that makes mystics into a mediocre melee class, at best. We still fall over from AE's, and the damage doesn't even match up to the Defiler's normal DPS.

I would like to see any Defiler out DPS ME on any raid :P Sorry but with the right gear and setup Defilers couldnt touch toe to toe just DPS. However yes we should first be Healers and would be nice to have some boosts here and there... Yet Ive notieced the differance between my Guild defiler and me is 200hp I give the MT more proc's for hate and 9% avoidance boost. Defilers are good and Mystics are equally as good in MT group it just depends on how you play. Sorry but the differance between the two is so minimal it's just nicer to put defilers in MT grp since Mystics can help MT from accross raid much more effeciently. I'm happy to be in the OT or Second MT grp it matters not to me, I love hitting shit and getting on the parse for fun too Yeah! for trash mobs.

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Nikon

has anyone in this thread ever played a Mystic because a good mystic will go toe to toe with a defiler but then again I dont have my labs pants ohhh well I will never be as good as Dannin



Blinks NPU illusionist
Nikon Rdn Dirty 70 mystic

Lepios

When our MT defiler is not on, i substitute in for him. I can do just as decent of a job as him. Defilers have a few abilities which help them out in an MT position then mystics. VoA helps on mobs with short range mezes,stuns, and stifles since they can break them and cure the other members of there group. This can also be done by other members of the raid but unless they say their stunned then we can not see the type needing to be cured. Another advantage is there superior mana regen abilities over mystics which mean they can heal for longer periods before mana becomes an issue.

So in essence the shamans classes are tooled differently but the skill of the shaman is one of the deciding factors when a guild looks at a defiler or a mystic is in the main tank group. Typically defilers are also favored becasue they can out buff the tank. Some people say the difference is only 200 hp, but from my own test with two of the best geared tanks in game, i found that the difference in my case is leaning more to the 800 hp range even with all the AA's and everything i could throw on him.

Zoin

all i can say is lepios, get over it and betray to a defiler if they are so much better...quit complaining about your class and learn to play it.

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Zoin
Defiler
NPU

razieh

Zoin for prez!

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J'avance plus vite que la musique!