Splurt - Page 2

Davngr · 01-15-2009, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twisty

i'm more than happy to have a discussion based on any solid ground and more than happy to be shown I'm wrong

i can't really follow your mental math as you have it layed out, so i'm just going to post ACT screens.

Letting Coil tick, casting next coil right as previous fades: 29k (think I jumped the gun on 10th tick of 1st coil, but not a huge diff).
Spam Coil: 28k

I think there is 1 extra tick for the parse where Coil is ticking. I copy-pasted the summary dmg up top onto the Coil breakdown.

I'd say that's just about identical dmg. Done the comparison test now 3rd time with pretty much same results. Letting Coil tick wins, however, because inevitably when spamming Coil it kept coming mid-cast of Rot and there is the .8sec spent on casting and ~.2sec on recovery-reaction dead time before next spell.

even if your math is correct and im sure it is solo with a traning dummy, it will still net you more dps to spam coil every time it's up since you will also benefit from another lich proc,gear proc, and group buff proc.

pro tip: only time i let coil run it's full duration is on AE encounters when i can dot multiple mobs, it takes some practise but it yields great gains.

twisty · 01-15-2009, 06:44 AM

Valid point, Davngr. Altho most gear procs are independent of number spells cast, so let's drop those.

In my new rotation, where I let Coil tick-off, I don't wait on anything either. Sure, 0.75sec cast of Coil is attactive for the on-spell procs, but if I have a choice of casting even 1.5sec Pandemic (last option always pretty much), it's:
a. (Pandemic DMG + 1 set of procs) * 0.5 vs -- it's times 0.5 due to Pandemic being rougly 2x the cast time of Coil
b. 1set of procs -- from Coil

Something tells me that my Pandemic dmg > dmg of 1 round of spell-procs.

Edit: looks like my pandemic is about 3300.

I'm not sure how to easily estimate dmg done by Lich + Group Buffs off 1 spell in a raid, but somehow I have a hard time believing it's 3.3k worth.

So... you're right, the gap is somewhat smaller, but I'm pretty sure letting Coil tick off comes out ahead even in raid.

Davngr · 01-15-2009, 01:05 PM

spell casting order is something i consider to be a personal choice made depending on the encounter.

i have tried letting coil run out to benefit from splurt and have noticed a drop in dps every time.

like you said, you don't need coil to keep a solid casting flow but in a 1 minute encounter you will still cast more if you spam coil then if you don't. under a second cast makes it almost like a free proc.

PS. if it's a linked encounter you should be casting pandemic no matter what so i don't actaully understand how that makes up for the missed proc chance letting coil run out.

Carthington · 01-15-2009, 02:56 PM

Here's the issue you run into if you let coil ride. If you're casting other spells along with it, at some point, you're going to run into a dead end if you just let coil ride without recasting until the very last tick. On an actual raid encounter, you are going to net an overall dps increase by recasting it using a rotation because of the fact you are constantly casting. Thats the big picture.

I see your screenshots on the parses but what you also need to consider is how much crits play a part in that because as you know crits do not happen 100% of the time and not always the same amount applied either. Sure, in your screenshots you are critting 100% of the time, but probably not every time as is the case with a majority of the necromancers including myself. I'd rather not take that chance myself, and personally, on raids, I have found that recasting coil in my rotation allows me to dps significantly higher than just riding it and eventually running into a dead end with nothing else to cast for 1 or 2 seconds.

The real test would have to be removing all of your gear and remove your AA that increases criticals and then test

SirAmoel · 01-19-2009, 07:46 AM

With all the BoE and Crit we're running on these days, we've basically turned Coil into a nuke with DoT component. The fact that it's always up dealing damage is a small benefit, really. Not recasting it is going to net you a big dps loss.

twisty · 01-19-2009, 03:01 PM

lol

in a discussion about reconsideration of coil usage, a statement, paraphrased, "we recast it because it's better" doesn't inspire me to continue. the fact that i don't have 100% crit rate doesn't change a whole lot - statistically it's same argument since crits affect ticks & nuke in same way. and we're certainly running with less BoE these days, which is what prompted me to revisit the Coil treatment to begin with. /boggle

Davngr,

Quote:

but in a 1 minute encounter you will still cast more if you spam coil then if you don't. under a second cast makes it almost like a free proc.

despite what it might feel like, it's not a free proc. the price of casting that coil is roughly equal to the math that I posted above (in worst case scenario for my side of argument at that) unless i'm forgetting something else, like i forgot procs at first. w/o casting Coil i don't run into dead time on 1mob. this conversation doesn't apply to linked encounters since there you're hopefully spreading coil.