Whats happening to summoners - Page 4

Davngr · 07-01-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yummy

Our class was perfectly defined as it was. We had less utility than sorcerers, thus we could DPS better (given a lot of support from other classes and the cost of having to keep an eye on our pet). I didn't sign up to be utility, changing class roles 5 years into the game is not the way to fix things. Especially at the request of morons what couldn't hack it.

Any summoner that lost their raid spot or got kicked from groups did so because of thier inability to play, not thier class's lack of potential. SoE is not likely to attach debuffs to any meaningful damage spell, but force us to use debuffs instead of doing good damage (The change to dumbfires (which they're thinking of adding debuffs to) mean they won't be procing things like CoB, Deathly Netherbolt, etc anymore). I could see them enhancing Siphoning of Soul by adding magic damage debuffs while not increasing the casting range on the spell. Yes, that's definately what I want... having to run into AE range, let the good times roll.

Force guilds to recruit more worthless players that failed as summoners. And while they're at it, make sure they're unable to DPS so even the shitty players look decent in comparison, Another excellent idea from SoE's mechanics dev.

All you horrible ass players should stop complaining and asking to be needed in raids and kill yourselves, stop ruining shit for the rest of us.

huh? what? you need to back up a bit and explain your self better..

cos right now you sound idiotical.

summoner where top parse over wiz in DoF,KoS,EoF. in RoK necros got raped by any half ass wiz and in TsO a necro will only out parse ZW a shit sorc.

limited pets lost their group buff bonus back in KoS GU 33 or something..
if you fail as a player you will still only get supper casual raid spots, no summoner is going to get into an avatar guild and keep their spot just cos of some debuffs, trust me you will be replaced quickly. unlike bards/enchanters summoners will be expected to put out top 1-5 dps or be cut.

quamdar · 07-01-2009, 09:47 AM

unless they increase the bards regen or make hearts/shards a viable regen for a group (don't see that happening) enchanters won't be losing any slots. don't see any raids dropping below 4 bards with these changes either.

also, is the addition of debuffs supposed to come before the next expansion in a LU or did they not say when it would be released?

Davngr · 07-01-2009, 10:02 AM

all bard/enchanter utillitys will be made raid wide or the change will be meaningless.

i also belive all group buffs should go raid wide since it's easier to balance 1 group of 24 people then it is to balance 4 groups of 6. i doubt soe will do this but it's something i think would help greatly to get more diversity in the raid.

Deson · 07-01-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quamdar

unless they increase the bards regen or make hearts/shards a viable regen for a group (don't see that happening) enchanters won't be losing any slots. don't see any raids dropping below 4 bards with these changes either.

I really wouldn't mind getting mindwrack in exchange for hearts. Before I left EQ1 in OoW, they actually made it viable mana regen to the point of competing with clarity.

Lakrohne · 07-01-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deson

I really wouldn't mind getting mindwrack in exchange for hearts. Before I left EQ1 in OoW, they actually made it viable mana regen to the point of competing with clarity.

that would be stealing manatap from enchanters.

Yummy · 07-01-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davngr

summoner where top parse over wiz in DoF,KoS,EoF. in RoK necros got raped by any half ass wiz and in TsO a necro will only out parse ZW a shit sorc.

It's very rare I lose a ZW, and that's usually in unideal groups (no ice lash or peace of mind, etc). Nor do I lose to warlocks on AE encounters (though often to swashies on multiple unlinked encounters). Any advantage wizards had in EoF and RoK was due to the retarded belief that summoners weren't DPS resulting in illusionists putting time compression on other people, even though that myth is obviously still widely believed, if you find a troubador with a clue, upbeat tempo will again put summoners back at the top in a normal raid (a good coercer purely DPSing and getting a troub would likely rape me, but lucky for me the're normally relagated to the MT group and are often busy with other tasks like mana flow). But maybe I'm just blessed, and two mythicaled troubs isn't standard for guilds, and spam casters are getting not love from an abundance of procs. Maybe not though, as I smoke SKs and swashies in Kurn's tower having a dirge instead of a troub and no other mages for PoM or frigid gift nor and inquisitor with FD. It's actually other classes that have 0 group/raid utility like rangers that compete with capable summoners the most on ZW and named parses.

Summoners, being of no real use to groups in any other way, were balanced by being capable of T1 DPS, and have been since the start. One just needs a hell of a lot of support to obtain that (bolster, ritual, UT, sinergism, PoM, PoTM, FD, etc etc). Unfortunately we have new devs that like to turn things on thier heads for how they believe things should work, as well as many other morons feeding them ideas. With any luck though, 99% of you suck (or are around people who suck and don't buff you appropriately because they have some ill conceived notion that summoners are worthless) and are bringing down global parse averages; and aeralik might not give us shit for a spell crit multiplier.

Deson · 07-01-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakrohne

that would be stealing manatap from enchanters.

I complained as soon as I saw it too however, they are already stealing brig debuffs so at this point anything should be on the table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yummy

Summoners, being of no real use to groups in any other way, were balanced by being capable of T1 DPS, and have been since the start. One just needs a hell of a lot of support to obtain that (bolster, ritual, UT, sinergism, PoM, PoTM, FD, etc etc).

Weird, I distinctly recall being told we were t2 and getting all the nerfs to keep us there. If all that support goes to a decent wizard, what happens?

Yummy · 07-01-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deson

Weird, I distinctly recall being told we were t2 and getting all the nerfs to keep us there. If all that support goes to a decent wizard, what happens?

Being told summoners were T2 by people like aeralik who weren't part of the original class designs and have thier own agendas? Sure, but that doesn't mean he's actually done enough yet to acheive that.

Since wizzards are going to be in the summoners group to give them ice lash, any PoTM, PoM, FD the summoner gets the wizzy also gets... They have don't have lifeburn to need things like bolster or tons of heals, and they'ld get TC from the illy instead of UT, and also be ritualed/jcapped.... but since they still don't cast as fast nor have a a pet also casting at the same time getting those group/raid procs, they're not capable of getting the same benifit. Same reason enchanters are so good at DPS now.. spam casting and pets + procs.

Tiermes · 07-01-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

no summoner is going to get into an avatar guild and keep their spot just cos of some debuffs

Not really true, for example our server has like 0 decent rogues, so it doesnt matter to have a shitty rogue or a shitty necro. And actually there are some decent summoners out there...we used to have one who parsed like top3, slightly behind 2 sorcs.

Deson · 07-01-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yummy

Being told summoners were T2 by people like aeralik who weren't part of the original class designs and have thier own agendas? Sure, but that doesn't mean he's actually done enough yet to acheive that.

No Lockeye, the guy who built the class as is.