AoC;better then EQ2?? - Page 2

kenman · 06-10-2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amoaka

Compelling argument there Kenman.............

And conversely, there's been no argument as to why EQ2 could even remotely be better.

Linearity of the game? Yeah, because everything DoF onward in EQ2 is freaking amazing with a plethora of choices to make, especially RoK! Mob diversity? From what I've seen so far, there's way more freaking mob diversity than in EQ2. I could be incorrect because I haven't hit 80 yet, but man, if I had to kill another fucking stone golem in EQ2 I would flip.

Bashing the combat system is one of the strangest things I can imagine. EQ2 is nothing but repeating one sequence of combat arts over and over again -- I've felt far more challenged in some solo instances in AoC than I did clearing MMIS/EH/CMayong in T7. Granted it's not as difficult as a real skill based game such as Quake 3, but it's a step in the right direction with having reaction based combat to maximize efficiency.

Itemization being bad, rofl. Before you start raiding in EQ2, there's virtually no content out there that you can't clear with handcrafted or treasured gear. And even then, only the tank's gear *really* matters, everybody else could be naked except for a weapon and it really wouldn't make that much of a difference. So, I'd say in this aspect it's really no different than EQ2.
Although honestly, some items like this look pretty damn hot if you ask me.

Cheddar did make one good point though -- EQ2 sucks so bad that really anything is better than it. I was getting far more enjoyment out of Hello Kitty Online during Closed Beta than I had in the last few months I played EQ2. It was fresh and unique instead of the same crappy thing over and over again! But er, AoC > HKO... by far.

icKx · 06-10-2008, 01:56 AM

Cheddar · 06-10-2008, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenman

Itemization being bad, rofl. Before you start raiding in EQ2, there's virtually no content out there that you can't clear with handcrafted or treasured gear. And even then, only the tank's gear *really* matters, everybody else could be naked except for a weapon and it really wouldn't make that much of a difference. So, I'd say in this aspect it's really no different than EQ2.
Although honestly, some items like this look pretty damn hot if you ask me.

I cant be bothered to go through the other points but the itemisation in AOC really does suck.

Just because the item you linked has a bunch of stats etc doesnt mean anything. If you actually spent sometime looking around you would realise that the stats mean nothing. Seriously they could have +99999 to everything and you wouldnt see any difference in damage/protection etc.

The itemisation is either completly fucked or Funcom dont want items to mean anything. I have heard arguments for both sides, some state funcom only want items to count for a max of 5% of your overall effectivness, others are saying the entire system is broken.

My personal view is that the items are not meant to mean as much as they do in EQ2, as AOC was designed with PVP in mind and they wanted somewhat of an even playing field where items are not the be all and end all. Thats great in PVP but in an PVE environment thats a fucking joke.

As for the combat system, whats so unique and impressive about having to press 1,2,3,1 to do a combo? Am I missing something here?

How is that any different from clicking on 4 different CA's in EQ2?

Now if I had a joypad in my hands and was playing on the 360 then yeah the combo system would be ideal and I could understand the reasons behind it. Like I mentioned before, AOC seems to me to be designed with console players in mind rather than the PC players.

kenman · 06-10-2008, 03:00 AM

Oh bullshit, stats very well do mean something. Just because people haven't parsed and figured out every single formula yet doesn't mean they don't. For example, invulnerability. My offensive stance gives me -70% to all of them, and I take over double the damage compared to not using a stance at all. The difference in survivability in cloth and heavy gear is also tremendous, implying that the +defense on gear does actually do something as well.

And I'm not sure how you can argue against a huge amount of +hp and a proc -- that very clearly functions greatly over a belt without them.

Regardless, do you remember you're comparing it to EQ2? The game where loads of people can easily get incredibly close to the cap in treasured gear with some buffs and then have virtually no gain from items with +strength, +dps, and +crit? That for a tank mitigation does dick-all since EoF because they're so high on the curve that +hp is always a superior option? No matter how bad it is in AoC, it's certainly not worse than in EQ2.

Edit: And in case you were specifically targetting generic stats: My items with constitution clearly raise my HP! Damn them not working!!

Cheddar · 06-10-2008, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenman

Oh bullshit, stats very well do mean something. Just because people haven't parsed and figured out every single formula yet doesn't mean they don't. For example, invulnerability. My offensive stance gives me -70% to all of them, and I take over double the damage compared to not using a stance at all. The difference in survivability in cloth and heavy gear is also tremendous, implying that the +defense on gear does actually do something as well.

And I'm not sure how you can argue against a huge amount of +hp and a proc -- that very clearly functions greatly over a belt without them.

Regardless, do you remember you're comparing it to EQ2? The game where loads of people can easily get incredibly close to the cap in treasured gear with some buffs and then have virtually no gain from items with +strength, +dps, and +crit? That for a tank mitigation does dick-all since EoF because they're so high on the curve that +hp is always a superior option? No matter how bad it is in AoC, it's certainly not worse than in EQ2.

Edit: And in case you were specifically targetting generic stats: My items with constitution clearly raise my HP! Damn them not working!!

Here's a 60 page thread about how stats mean nothing, enjoy reading it.

Strength, dexterity, wisdom, etc? Don't matter? - Age of Conan Forums

My personal experience along with what seems to be a hell of a lot of others is that gear is pretty much pointless. At least in EQ2 I could see base damage on CA's, how str effected your attack, how spell quality raised damage etc. All of this is missing from AOC, its bizzare.

I'm not saying that EQ2 is perfect, far from it actually. What I am saying is that the people who are burnt out on EQ2 or have issues with it and have quit, seem to want to blindly hail AOC as the greatest thing ever when in fact its pretty poor imo.

A lot of the crap in AOC will be fixed eventually though and I honestly wasnt bothered about stuff like that along with class balance etc. What did bother me was that the game seemed so very very shallow and I dont think that will change honestly, as it was meant to be played on a console so the limitations of that platform will always hinder it being the type of game I want to play.

kenman · 06-10-2008, 03:44 AM

And wow I totally skipped over your part about the combat system.

It's not just the combos, it's the whole directional thing that intrigues me. A hard hitting attack gets mitigated to something like 10% of it's original damage if the enemy is triple shielding that side. It means to maximize dps you're not simply repeating one combination of skills over and over, but rather constantly watching the mob and judging the what's the most effective skill right then and there. Maybe this changes later on, but at level 51 I'm still loving it.

But on the issue of combos, that system is nice simply because it enforces higher standards than EQ2 by completely scrapping autoattack and making every hit under control of you. In EQ2 I can walk up to practically any solo mob, toggle autoattack, go to the bathroom, and come back with it dead. Not that soloing in AoC is rocket science, but I like that it actually requires the player to be involved.

Anyway, regardless of what's broken and will be fixed in the future -- I'm really not seeing how this was purely "designed to be played on a console". Right now I'm constantly using Alt to switch between two hotbars, clicking my combos, and then actually performing them with my left hand. How the hell is that actually going to work on the 360 version? Is it going to be like EQOA where you scroll through attacks? Because that sounds like a severely gimp and un-fun way to play. But if it was designed for console -- we'd have to do that on the PC now!

Illuziun · 06-10-2008, 04:30 AM

Doesn't matter really, let the people have fun playing a outdated and dead game.

What I've learned over the years of MMO playing is that these people having all this fun in EQ2/WoW ect now, are just starting to experience what the game is like when you're in a successful guild and raiding becomes fun and/or are finally getting quality gear, and they just love standing in QH going "hey, look at me, I'm uber now!". I bet if you ask 90% of the people that claim WoW or EQ2 is so fun right now, where they were 2-3 years ago and I bet it's some fucking shit hole family guild doing group instances with a bunch of newbs, or playing the other game.

Same thing happened in the last generation of major MMOs, and it will continue to happen.

To all the AoC haters, I agree on alot of things that need to be fixed but it's still a vary good game, and sales are showing that it's a success and probably all ready doubles if not more active accounts EQ2 ever had in it's prime and that number is only going up.

Blackgate · 06-10-2008, 08:59 AM

Kenman, try not to be so blatantly obvious with your trolling and touting of AoC. Its not like all your trash talking is going to make people quit playing the game, its really just annoying to read.

asumer1 · 06-10-2008, 09:06 AM

Sorry OP but this poll is retared...

AoC just launched, how teh hell can you compare games.

Asking if a newly launched game is better than a 3/4 year old game is just silly.

curuw · 06-10-2008, 09:17 AM

aoc has a great potential but eq2 is the by far better game at the moment (lag is nearly gone now!)