Age of Conan - Page 14

arieste · 08-27-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadarX

They are still a popular idea for some reason. Tabula Rasa is using them the only difference being skills you garner from lower tiers are still marginally useful at all levels.

The popularity of archetypes spems from psychology (jung in think...) as well as the fact that they reflect real life... you go to school, you can be a doctor or a lawyer, if you become a doctor, you can be a family doctor or a surgeon, you become a surgeon you can be a brain surgeon or a heart surgeon... etc.

The "holy trinity" is also partly responsible.

In my own MMORPG design, there would be no archetypes. If you have 50mil to spare, have i ever got a proposal for you!

Alania · 08-27-2007, 02:14 PM

Even with a "healer" archtype, the dev's have said that it isn't a "straight heal" type of healer. Judging by what I've seen of Scions of Set (damn them for not getting me in beta yet!) and the description without actually knowing the "spells" that are granted, it doesn't look like I target the tank and heal him. Its more like ritual healing and the use of procs or lifetaps to achieve that.

arieste · 08-27-2007, 03:46 PM

getting *buffed*, AoC style.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/loadNews/8567

Goozmania · 08-27-2007, 05:58 PM

Notice the quotes I put around ripping off. EQ2 didn't invent archetypes, but this Conan game seems to be mimicing the idea EQ2 had that failed. So long as they identify that there are archetypes, there will be complaining about balancing between them; which will either lead to the removal of the whole system, or will lead to classes being almost identical (or in the case of EQ2, both!).

And I don't think being able to work on a 3-4 year old computer means the graphics have to be 4 years old. The only example that comes to mind immediately is FFXI which had astounding graphics, textures, and spell effects (better than EQ2 in a few areas)... yet worked on older computers.

Laodaron · 08-27-2007, 11:33 PM

a game should NEVER be playable on a system more than 2 years old that hasn't been upgraded. Period.

RadarX · 08-28-2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laodaron

a game should NEVER be playable on a system more than 2 years old that hasn't been upgraded. Period.

I think most people marketing games would disagree with you. If you combined the entire world of MMOG players, I think you'd find a very high majority played on moderate systems. I don't know if you noticed? The PC market is getting stomped by consoles and we're feeling the direct effects of it (i.e. why do we have NO PC version of Call of Duty 3?). The more they open things up, the more love the PC gets.

Broomhilde · 08-28-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arieste

In my own MMORPG design, there would be no archetypes. If you have 50mil to spare, have i ever got a proposal for you!

We will raise the money for you Arieste!

No Archetype system, maybe just the ability to assign points to different attributes ? Like Ryzom?

Laodaron · 08-28-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadarX

I think most people marketing games would disagree with you. If you combined the entire world of MMOG players, I think you'd find a very high majority played on moderate systems. I don't know if you noticed? The PC market is getting stomped by consoles and we're feeling the direct effects of it (i.e. why do we have NO PC version of Call of Duty 3?). The more they open things up, the more love the PC gets.

I can't possibly fathom why a game designer would retro-design a game. PCs aren't getting beat by consoles for any other reason except that they are more easily marketed and cheaper. That and its MUCH easier to appeal to the dumbfuck gamer who only plays for graphics when you can run your system to an HD tv than having to purchase an additional HD monitor for the PC.

I still stand by my comment that games on the PC should not be playable on a system more than 2 years old that hasn't been upgraded.

arieste · 08-28-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goozmania

Notice the quotes I put around ripping off. EQ2 didn't invent archetypes, but this Conan game seems to be mimicing the idea EQ2 had that failed. So long as they identify that there are archetypes, there will be complaining about balancing between them; which will either lead to the removal of the whole system, or will lead to classes being almost identical (or in the case of EQ2, both!).

And I don't think being able to work on a 3-4 year old computer means the graphics have to be 4 years old. The only example that comes to mind immediately is FFXI which had astounding graphics, textures, and spell effects (better than EQ2 in a few areas)... yet worked on older computers.

The EQ2 archetype system failed because it was poorly designed, not because it was an archetype system. In Tabula Rasa (for example), the archetype system works very well.

It's like any design concept, it can be done well or it can be done poorly. It's like saying that zoning system failed because it was a seamless world. That's not it at all, it failed because their zoning system was poorly designed. LoTRO has seamless zoning that works very well.

Don't confure something failing because of concept vs. quality.

RadarX · 08-29-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laodaron

I can't possibly fathom why a game designer would retro-design a game. PCs aren't getting beat by consoles for any other reason except that they are more easily marketed and cheaper. That and its MUCH easier to appeal to the dumbfuck gamer who only plays for graphics when you can run your system to an HD tv than having to purchase an additional HD monitor for the PC.

I still stand by my comment that games on the PC should not be playable on a system more than 2 years old that hasn't been upgraded.

Designing a game to run on a wide variety of systems isn't "retro-designing" it's trying to keep from restricting your market. VG's system reqs are one of the many reasons that game didn't fly.

It really doesn't matter why PC's are getting beat...they are being obliterated. PC games made up like 12% of total games sales last year...thats IT and the margin is getting wider. The smart business idea is to stop making PC games all together. Keeping a broad market is the only way they'll stay afloat in the next few years.