Zen

Hmm.. I am a bit confused now..

So... What is this "bug" again?

That the hate transfer cap is 50% in total? Thus, you will need to be aware of who casts their hate transfer first as once 50% is reached, the addition % casted after the cap is reached will be ignored?

But I kinda think it is "implied" that hate transfer should be 50% per toon(source) due to sigil. Else, the group hate siphon would be the suck with the cap.

I can only think of occasion with 4 transfers (my amend, corecer, ass/swash, wizzy/warlock) on me but I didn't pay much attention to the cast order.

boli

The "bug" was the order never seemed to matter I relogged completly recast amends had the others transfers cast AFTER and amends was STILL bugged due to it actually not being counted.

The only thing I could think of was the other transfers were of a higher level and I knew it used to be a bug where the higher level transfer overwrote and counted before the lower and this is most likely a hangup from those days.

It will no doubt be normally not noticed unless you pass that magic 50% cap... which in this case... they did.

Enrico

When you're taking percentages and just adding them together, you risk getting a stupid result, because that's not how percentages work. In many cases, it works out to something similar to the real numbers, but not here.

With the way you're saying it works (and I have no doubt you're right), players are better off with lower ranks in some of their threat transfer buffs in some cases, and sigil can't work.

Tharinor

I think the more likely issue here is that his DPS sucked and wasn't enough to make up the hate accumulation needed to stay at the top of the hate list.

1) Labs has a lot of group encounters.

2) Wizards aren't that great of an amends target especially against group encounters. Wizards do better single target DPS than group target DPS, and their DPS tends to spike more than others, which isn't exactly a good trait in an amends target, because the valleys between the spikes present good opportunities for others to leapfrog you on the hate list.

3) You're tanking labs, which means I wouldn't be surprised if your DPS as MT was in the 300-500 range. Depends on your gear, group, how you use your spells/combat arts, and how you're AA spec'd. But let's look at it like this. Assume a single mob encounter. Your amends target is doing 1800 DPS, and there are two other characters doing 1600 DPS. You get 41% of 1800 (if amends is master I, best case scenario), because 1 point of damage = 1 point of hate. That gives you 738 hate. This means that you need to come up with 1600 - 738, roughly, to stay on top of the hate list. 1600-738 = 862. If you're DPSing 400, that means you need to come up with 462 hate from taunts, debuffs, and other "affects" that occur on your skills like stuns or interrupts. 462 is a LOT to have to make up from strictly taunts alone.

Of course, in the lack of specific information regarding your DPS, the wizard's DPS, and everyone elses DPS on that labs run, this is pure speculation. But judging by how many early labs runs go at this point in time, and how many Paladins who start out don't know how to properly spec themselves for AA and don't understand what's needed in a good amends target, it's a good guess as to what may be happening.

Also consider that nobody else is seeing this "bug." Only you. Not trying to be an ass here, just suggesting that before you start crying foul and blaming things on bugs that nobody else is seeing, consider the possibility that maybe you need to learn a little more about your class and the mechanics of the game to improve your abilities as a MT. Everyone else that has become a MT has had to go through the same growing pains and learning curves, I assure you.

Tharinor

Don't know why I didn't see this before. You need a dirge in the MT group for Cacophony of Blades and Dirge Hate buff. CoB = a lot of DPS for Paladins who are spec'd correctly with Trample. Dirge Hate buff = 37% hate gain increase and increased aggression. Those two alone are far more important and beneficial than the assassin's or swashbuckler's hate transfer. Swashy should be preferred in a place like Labs with group encounters over the Assassin, usually. If you can swing a high DPS Warlock instead of the wizard, that would be better than amending a wizard. Hell, amending the Swashbuckler is probably better than amending the wizard.

Tharinor

When you need better survivability, this is the group you should try to swing for against tougher zones/encounters:

MT, Defiler, Templar, Dirge, Druid, (Fury for DPS, Warden for better survivability), Warlock/Swashbuckler amends target (whichever one helps you control aggro best, depends on which one is better with DPS)

In situations where you don't need the druid, I'd say swap a coercer for the druid and have them add their hate buff on you.

If you've got a good enough swashbuckler, they are preferred over a warlock because the swashbuckler would benefit more from the buffs in the MT group than the warlock, and the warlock would benefit more from buffs in a mage or other group than it does in the MT group. However, in the absence of a swashbuckler that does well enough to be amended, a good warlock works for amends.

Onra

It has been comfirmed to me, in person, by Lockeye (at faire fare) that the aggro transfers that stick are those cast first up to the 50% mark. My guess would be the "bug" is lack of DPS. You don't hold aggro with amends, you hold it wtih DPS. Amends is just extra.

Tharinor

Yes, I agree. I checked his EQ2Players character page, and his AA spec is fine with 4-4-8 AGI/STA/INT. Problem would be his MT group, IMO. You need that dirge to really make your AA spec shine for DPS, and a swashy or warlock is going to be a better amends target by far than a wizard if they are good warlock/swashies.

Your AA spec is going to do good DPS, but if you really want to hold aggro and generate the right amount of DPS, a dirge will help a LOT with CoB's haste and proc.

Onra

CoB tends to only be 5% of my total DPS with proc at 3%
Whereas a troub POTM is typically more around 8% and proc at 10%.
For me, a dirge is only useful for hate and PoS. Both of which of course are extremely valueable. However, a dirge provides very little dps increase. Probably around a 12-15% increase, whereas a troub is closer to 20%

Tharinor

I hardly call a 12-15% increase in DPS "very little DPS increase."

Not sure what the fabled set does for Troub's, but for Dirges, I think the first thing they get with a set of 3 is a reduction in recast times between CoBs.