boli

Labs tanking (shhh we've al got to start somewhere :P)

So I was tanking and found it impossible to hold agro against anything unless I really pushed dps to the max and used sigil al the time. In fact unless I used a 2hander I couldn't hold it at all. Now this was highly embarrasing consisding my amends was regually topping the parse.

It finally twigged that amends was bugged (somehow) when my amends pulled agro right on the pull after I unloaded Smite Evil.

A restart later and a recasting of all buffs later and no avial. So as you have to do in these circumstances you step have to step back and ask a warrior to tank amoung the jears about how much "paladins suck". Certainly not my best day... but it got me thinking about the group setup I had:

Defiler, Wizard, Templar, Paladin, Swashbuckler, Assassin

Now I knew swash and assasin stacked agro... that was recently confirmed so it must be something else; so spent the remainder of the raid racking my brain. I have always made sure no wizzy/warlock cast agro transfer on either myself or my amends (wizzy)

I finally twigged it.

The transfer cap is 50%!!! and the order it uses to figure out the which is transfered is spell level.

Which means assasin and swashbuckler hate is calculated into it first (bringing transfer up to 34%) and THEN amends is calculated meaning I only had 16% amends. the rest is ignored as it pushed me over the cap; and unfortunaly in this case the swash and assasin wern't the best transfer BUT I knew amends overwrote any lower class transfer I had just failed to take into account the cap and *persumed* (poorly) my amends would take preference as it was the highest transfer.

BOY was I wrong.

Now I spent a day looking like a fool but if I'm right and we watch who's trasfering what no other pally doesn't have to. Now if you knew this already, sweet but if you didn't this is from one embarrassed pally to the rest of you... you do NOW.

Jalathan

When I'm tanking I only use amends, I don't take the chance that the other will bug it out.

Were you in defensive or offensive? I've found it next to impossible (even with a great amends target) to hold agro in defensive since it craps out your dps and taunts are basically worthless.

Thuriel

You think that's bad? I MT'd Labs so badly, I was replaced by a monk.

boli

Offensive all the way... stupidly thought that the transfers stacked right... highest going first but nope turns out it works on spell level :/.

Least now we know about it so they'l be only one pally looking like a n00b :P

Jalathan

The one and only time I ever tanked labs, I did fine (except for the doom trio, the damn ravager hung back forever... messed up the whole pull), but I didn't tank past the uncaged Alzid because my warlock was feeling ill, so I swapped out with a guard to finish up the zone.

This didn't hurt my feelings as he was way better geared than I was (still is and I have him tanking a labs run for me on Sunday while I OT)

boli

Heh... trust me I normally have no problems wth labs... the week previous I don't think I lost agro once... that is why I was so confused how agro was messed up this time.

Tharinor

How much were you DPSing, and how much were the top parsers DPSing, including your hate transfers?

Even with amends and two hate transfers, if your DPS blows you're not going to hold aggro. Also, amends is only a 41% transfer at master level. This means that at a bare minimum you have to make up the 10% of that on your own to make sure you stay on top of the hate list over your amends target. Amends targets CAN pull aggro if you aren't generating enough hate, and if you couple a Paladin who isn't spec'd right, geared right, or playing right to do enough DPS, with an amends target who is doing a lot of DPS, it can and will happen, especially at the start if they are hitting with their big hits and the Paladin is getting resisted or just doing badly at pulls.

Onra

Incorrect. Hate transfers are stacked in the order they are cast, not by spell level.

Always cast amends first before you get other transfers and you will never see this "bug".

Zen

Erm... Isn't the cap supposed to be 50% per toon(source)? The two hate transfers from swash and ass should not be combined, as they are two different toon(source). However, the 50% cap applies to amend + MD or amend + SD.

And isn't sigil transfering 36% per toon(source) in the group as well? It will suck if the cap is calculated as 50% for summation of all transfers.

Also, I dont think the order of cast matters anymore. Nowadays. I can feel the transfers are working whether I cast amend first/last or my assassin cast his MD first/last.

Anyone else feels differently?

Onra

The order obviously doesn't matter when there are only 2 transfers. But when you take into account there can be up to 6 forms of hate transfers(assassin swash paladin sorc coercer monk), it does. (And there may be more)