Paladin Mythical Epic - Suggested Changes - Page 3

Zen · 02-18-2008, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyia

Well to someone who does not realize that a pally can heal and doesn't do it on a regular basis isn't utilizing all the classes potential. For you guys to say shut up in not so many words obviously you need to do some retraining so what i suggest is delete your toons unload the game go to the store buy a new game and start over.

shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up 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enough words for you to go cry and delete your toons, unload the game, go to the store buy a new game and start over?

Yes?

K.. Good...

Cyrdemac · 02-18-2008, 10:06 AM

To get some sense back into this discussion:
Yes, Paladins CAN heal, and sometimes they even do it, BUT a raiding Paladin hasnt the tools to heal properly if hes doing the tanking. If a healing-specced Paladin find a high end Raidforce to get along and happily heals there, then fine, he had chosen to be a Healer, but thats not the idea of the Paladin class.
Paladins were meant to tank and have supporting heals and spells for this job. This makes them a different tank than Guardians, but nonetheless, we are tanks.
Otherwise SoE would have given us another special at lvl 80 then one wich is meant to draw aggro. Even our cures are meant to draw aggro. Show me a healer that likes the idea of open area taunt on cures.
Everything comes back to the tank. If you dont like it, play your healer. But the mythical Paladin weapon is meant for raiding Paladins and I strongly doubt that more than 1 out of a thousand Paladins in high end raidforces ae fully specced healers..

So please keep focused on the starting post, stop flaming and try to keep civilized.

Mahgnus · 02-18-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrdemac

To get some sense back into this discussion:
Yes, Paladins CAN heal, and sometimes they even do it, BUT a raiding Paladin hasnt the tools to heal properly if hes doing the tanking. If a healing-specced Paladin find a high end Raidforce to get along and happily heals there, then fine, he had chosen to be a Healer, but thats not the idea of the Paladin class. <<<which will NEVER EVER happen.
Paladins were meant to tank and have supporting heals and spells for this job. This makes them a different tank than Guardians, but nonetheless, we are tanks.
Otherwise SoE would have given us another special at lvl 80 then one wich is meant to draw aggro. Even our cures are meant to draw aggro. Show me a healer that likes the idea of open area taunt on cures.
Everything comes back to the tank. If you dont like it, play your healer. But the mythical Paladin weapon is meant for raiding Paladins and I strongly doubt that more than 1 out of a thousand Paladins in high end raidforces ae fully specced healers..

So please keep focused on the starting post, stop flaming and try to keep civilized.

Wow you summed up what i was about to rant off about.. thx for save me the time =p but your points are sound.

Mahgnus · 02-18-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyia

Well to someone who does not realize that a pally can heal and doesn't do it on a regular basis isn't utilizing all the classes potential. For you guys to say shut up in not so many words obviously you need to do some retraining so what i suggest is delete your toons unload the game go to the store buy a new game and start over.

As for you ill hold my comments as it is clear your either new/unexperienced and it isn't nice to pick on the slow kids.

Enrico · 02-18-2008, 12:59 PM

In a casual raid setting, if there are extra tanks and insufficient healers, a paladin can do a very good job healing. Been there, done that. The thing you have to recognize is that you're doing everything you can to put out a what a priest does without really trying.

That ability does not continue into higher levels of play. I don't think it is possible for a paladin to heal anywhere near as effectively as a competent priest in a high end raid setting, and the only acceptable way to be an alt healer is to actually have an alt.

Now, consider that the group epic (fabled) is easily attainable by someone of the casual raiding variety, and you'll realize that they can probably benefit from this weapon, but they will have to use the lucanic gladius when tanking. For such a player, just adding the shield block would make it a great item. It might be wise to "fuse" them, ala Berik, the sword of thunder and BBC to form the EBBC. Right now, it's just your new offensive sword & board weapon. Situational gear.

And casuals need to realize that those who can hope to earn the raid epic (mythical) have an entirely different outlook, as they can only do one thing at an adequate level of play which matches their guild, and that's tank. The mytical actually looks pretty good, despite several serious flaws. It has the best mitigation of the epics, but the worst avoidance. It probably should go to 8% block, 8% physical mitigation, 8% heal, but you guys can worry about that. I'm not a raider. I don't know why I'm even commenting. It must be that urge to ramble on the internet that everyone has.

Virutis · 02-18-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahgnus

As for you ill hold my comments as it is clear your either new/unexperienced and it isn't nice to pick on the slow kids.

maybe for you, but i'll pick on the slow kids, i dont give a fuck.....

now to you ignorant retarded fuck who thinks we are healers, you must really suck and dont know the class....we are tanks with heals to support ourselves. that is the design of the paladin class....we leave the fucking healing to the real healers, the shaman, druids, and clerics....GG being dumb....

Anarissa · 02-18-2008, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyia

Well to someone who does not realize that a pally can heal and doesn't do it on a regular basis isn't utilizing all the classes potential. For you guys to say shut up in not so many words obviously you need to do some retraining so what i suggest is delete your toons unload the game go to the store buy a new game and start over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahgnus

As for you ill hold my comments as it is clear your either new/unexperienced and it isn't nice to pick on the slow kids.

This wouldn't be picking on the slow kids Mahgnus, this would be more like educating the the guy who got run over by the bus, to not step out into traffic. We're way past educating with this one, he's been lost to the void. We can only hope he never bred!

Oizen · 02-18-2008, 02:48 PM

QFE...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oisin

RHETORICAL AND USELESS WARNING FOR RETARDS WITH NO READING COMPREHENSION ANYWAY: Your tardness, hostility, and boobery is also immortalized. gg

A tasty plate of edjumication has been served. A goonball flame meant to derail this thread will only get an equally goonball response.

FACT #1: Paladins are tanks.

FACT #2: Considering FACT #1, there are some problems with The Truth of Marr and some issues simply appear to be a blatant lack of testing before implementation.

FACT #3: Stupid flames are unwelcome in this attempt at a constructive thread. The community is plenty ticked off enough to lay waste to moronic flames. Please grow up or join one of the other cry fest threads where your negativity might not get your eyes humped right out of your face.

...that's pretty much all there is to say on that.

Zen · 02-19-2008, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyia

kk 2 things the weapon is just fine and all the whining will just cause a massive nerf and no one will be happy. On the heals for pally well truthfully healing for a pally should come as naturally as taunting for a guardian. I see all this +50 to heal and spell dmg well it say +50 % of wisdom to heal and spell dmg and i know that is a large amount for my pally so i don't know why all the complaints about that are from, and in response to the shield thing get a better shield. The truth is we are pallys and comparing ourselves to guardians is a damm shame we tank differently from them and if your basing your tanking to a guardian is not the way to go. I see nothing wrong with either weapon the fabled or the mythical and i think it will better my pally. The other problem is a pally can be utilized in so many ways that soe would have a hard time giving it the tools that can be used every way well i commend them for that great effort. and

to all the whinnners

Hmm.. ok...

Nyia's post just made me feel all so nostalgic about old skool arguement...

Paladin and guardian tanks differently.. Like a guardian mitigate damage via temp mit buffs while a paladin heals himself, right? The paladin even gets hate from the heals casted to hold aggro. Yea... right....

Back to topic with constructive suggestions
First off, I do not have the mythical version yet so.. Yea...

I think attribute/health/power are of the least importance.

DPS
Please give us Double Attack instead of Crit. The class already have AA for both melee and spell crit and there are plenty of gears out there with melee/spell crit as well.

+100 combat art damage and Marr's Favor. As many have mentioned, our spell/CA are not of high damaging value and +CA/spell caps are being reached fairly easily. It will be great to change Marr's Favor proc to affect base damage values instead. Also, Marr's Favor does not currently affect Legionnaire's Smite (spell from KoS Crusader INT line) and Smite Evil (AE from EoF Paladin's Wrath line). Paladin does not has much spells to start in the first place so please make the proc affects all our spells gained from AA as well.

Survivability
The lack of +defence/parry is fine but if I were to choice one, I will pick parry as the class has no parry buffs at all. Will be great to have shield block in place of +100 combat art damage. And as many mentioned, a worthy SoD replacement.

But I really hate the iffy-ness of avoidance. The one thing I strongly feel that the class is lacking is a timed damage prevention skill. I do not have the mythical version yet so I cannot comment on the clicky effect of "Holy Avenger", like how fast it siphons health from the enemies to the allies. Maybe like someone has already mentioned a simple change and make it an AA enchancement to allow Divine Aure to prevent all damage instead of damage below 50% max health will be nice.

Leave "Touch of Life" as it is.

Aggro
Don't think we need help here. Or..... Raid wide amend?

Fidelus · 02-19-2008, 05:16 AM

Raidwide amends would be harmful IMO. In group I can cure, heal the person more easily should they need it, and in general know wtf they are up to better. If I could do it raidwide, I wouldn't.

Remove +100 CA, throw avoidance related bone = best fix for this. Prolly all agree on that.