Brodek

Interesting, I never would of thought about that, I should get an adept 3 version of the lvl 1 defense skill to test it out, atm i have the app3 and i loose like 3% avo

Tyirul

That's actually something I never even thunk of. Nice.

Brodek

Didnt you left the game tyirul?

Tharinor

My attack only drops about 30 points from no-stance to Adept III Tier8 defensive stance. I wonder just how much of a difference in hit rates and DPS you would see between Tier 1 defensive and Tier 8 defensive, and if it's worth the lost defense/resists?

Rhajiid

(1) STANCES

I'm wondering about the stance usage, too. Let's hav a look at them:

lvl 4 defensive, M1
+21 WIS
+15% mitigation
(the rest is too low to be of any importance at lvl 80)

lvl 72 defensive, A3
+160 WIS
aggression +15.3
defense +31
+2117 resist magic / divine
+15% miti
-22 melee skills

lvl 73 offensive, A3
+163 STR
+163 INT
+47 melee skills

So what's the recommendation: use the lvl 4 until you really want to get as defensive as you can because you're either running into aggro control problems or want to be as hard-to-hit as one can get. A pala gains 3 levels of aggro (5 skill points per level as a basis) and 6 levels of defense at the cost of ~ 4 levels in melee skill loss. And use the offensive as soon as you don't need the 15% miti gain (because you're not tanking or have healers where you don't get under yellow).

Did I get that right?


(2) AA LINES

For the AA lines, I'm thinking about a little change myself and need some advice. My current allocation looks like:

Crusader
STR 4 - 4 - 8 - 8 - 1
STA 4 - 4 - 8 - 8 - 1
INT 4 - 4 - 8

Paladin
21 Heal*
21 Hero*
17 Wrath
5 Support (Righteous Weapon)
(* = end spell included)

Let's have a look why I did pick those first:

Crusader:

+17.6 attack speed (STR)
+10% hate gain (STR)
+10% cast / reuse (STR)
+22% melee crit (STA)
+4% max HP (STA)
10s absorb any hit < 50% max HP (STA)
+68% spell crit (INT)

I had STA/WIS before, but my experience was that, so I liked the leadership buffs, the figures went way up when I re-aalocated the points from WIS to STR/INT.
I really like the STA end spell as it makes you quite immune for 10s. Great combo with rescue when MT goes down and you're taking over to give the healers some time to switch and get their stuff on you. Or just get some seconds when situation goes critical.
I don't think that many of you out there don't put the points in melee crit and spell crit. What I'm wondering is how to get the maximum result. A lot of guys seem to use AGI 4-4-8 as well to get trample... if we have STA 4-4-8 and INT 4-4-8... how would you spend the rest?
What do you think about STR 4-4-8 (attack speed), AGI 4-4-8 (trample), STA 4-4-8 (melee crit), INT 4-4-8 (spell crit) and the remaining 6 in STR or STA (hate gain or HP)? But that'd mean giving up both end skills in STR and STA... *yikes*

Paladin:

I picked Heals for the end skill (additional heal) Hero (which is quite undoubtable for the +24% shield effectiveness), 17 Points in Wrath and 5 in Support (Righteous Weapon). I never had Smite Evil as I didn't look too good for me, but what I catch from you is that this seems to be quite a mistake.

So what wouls you recommend to re-allocate and for what reason?

And, hell yes, this IS a killer thread... I learned a lot from it by now... THANK YOU!

Stonestrong

You def want Smite Evil, that shit it teh win.

__________________

Galavant

I prefer to tank using the lvl 72 defensive stance (Bayle's Stance) as opposed to any other stance. Before I go into why, take a quick look at the difference between Bayle's Stance M1 and Knight's Defense M1:

Knight's Defense vs. Bayle's Stance (M1)

Bayle's Stance:
+162 WIS
-20.2 Melee
+16 aggression
+32.1 defense
+2173 vs magic and divine
+15% armor mit

The only legitimate reason to use the lvl 4 stance would be to negate the loss of melee skills. I have heard that melee hit rates will be getting addressed in GU44, but even if they aren't I will still use the lvl 72 stance. The difference in hit rates you will see from 20 slashing are next to nothing, especially against orange con mobs. Think about everything you lose by using the lvl 4 stance:

- 162 WIS
equates to +57 & +81 heal amount and spell damage from the fabled and mythical epic proc, respectively (I know many of you hate the proc, but that's neither here nor there). 162 WIS will also net you about 175 power
- 16 aggression
if you think taunts don't matter, your grp isn't doing enough dps.
- 32.1 defense
a book could be written analyzing avoidance checks, but what it really comes down to is the question of whether or not as a tank you wanna be the hardest sucka to kill. (hint: you are harder to kill with 32.1 extra defense)
- 2173 vs magic and divine
+magic increases all of your resists, not just magic. Bayle's Stance gives about 1% to all resists (did I mention the extra 162 WIS increases your resists too?)

So you have to ask yourself:

+20 slashing

or

+162 WIS
+57 to heals / spells (fabled epic)
+174 power
+16 aggression
+32.1 defense
+7% magic resist, +1% to all resists

To me it seems absurd that anyone would choose 20 slashing over the benefits of the high level defensive stance, no matter how much they want their aggro / dps to improve. I want my aggro and dps to be as high as I can just like anyone, but there comes a point even for a min / max player when the returns are just too small to push it any further, and I think using the lvl 4 stance is one of those times.

My AA setup:

4,1 STR
4488 STA
86802 WIS
448 INT

I was asked to spec fear immunity and I've come to really like it. My dps has suffered compared to my old spec (448 STR) which is obvious considering most of my dps comes from auto attack. I think it comes down to being a matter of personal taste whether one would rather have haste or HP (i.e. 4,1 STR vs. 4,4,5 STR), or Fear Immunity vs. even more haste (448 STR, 448 WIS). For what it's worth, I will probably go 4,4,5 STR once my respec price goes down.

21 Hero
21 Wraths
Call to Duty
Castigation
Righteous Weapon
3,5 Ward

You need to drop the healing line son. Going 3,5 ward is all I can see being worth it in that line. When tanking, casting your ward is about the only healing you'll have time to do. If you're having to use Sacrament of Bayle or Arch Heal it's time to find new healers tbh. Like Stonestrong said, "You def want Smite Evil, that shit it teh win."

- Nektulos.Galavant

Mahgnus

If im tankin anything that is over a ^^^ I use the t8. But like on OK adds i useall just use the t1 for the mit bonus or last expacs avy adds i would use the t1

__________________

Madb

I respec as needed, whats 20 plat every few days, take me out of your studies, I dont think there is a spec that fits every encounter. For the prenerf version of Druushk I was fear immune spec'd, found some usefulness but hate the whole thing, I used the same spec for buffs and benefit of regen when we took down Mischeif. I may give AGI a little love for avatars, but dont think the frontal will be too useful as the mobs do not like to stack up to get a/e frontals, they scatter about and most avatars stifle , so the only thing I could say is useful is a huge spell crit rate and faster casting speed (casting speed being less important) melee crits are nice, but the aoe from hammer ground makes the sta line more attractive. DA is good and I use it about once a night, I'd much rather see a 3 min recast on it, currently with all the priest epic saves, I think it has become even less useful, if you like having the extra HP from the sta line -grats, it's not needed we get a nice HP boost from hero line. idk, just some ideas

Tharinor

I'm not seeing any aggro control issues using Tier 8 defensive stance right now, and surivability is at a premium as you progress through the RoK raid tiers, so I'll likely stick with it for now. Plus, there doesn't seem to be much of a loss in attack rating form using defensive as it is anyway, and I'm not sure if it will affect hit rates that much.