Hate Transfer Mechanics

Frezzy358 · 06-14-2008, 03:26 AM

This might be more appropriate in a different section, but I'm posting here because it really affects us more than anyone. Also, I figure paladins know as much about hate transfer mechanics as anyone. That being said, here's the issue.

I had an assassin and coercer in my group for CoA, and decided to test something I'd been wondering for a while. The cap on transfer is 50%, so I was wondering whether it is the most recently applied transfers that take effect of the older ones.

I had the assassin put transfer on me, then I put amends on them, putting me over the transfer cap. Then I had the coercer apply hate transfer, though it was entirely over the cap. I had the coercer pull, and it put me in combat. This led me to think that the newest ones were the ones that took effect, but I decided to test it the other way to make sure.

I took off all transfers, has the assassin apply transfer, then I put amends on the coercer, and then got the coercer's transfer. I had the assassin pull, and once again I was put into combat. So this means that it worked both ways.

I'm wondering how the game figures out which 50% to give you. Does it just give a proportional amount of all 3 transfers? Or did I mess something up in my test and the answer is much simpler? Any input or ideas are appreciated.

Demented Penguin · 06-14-2008, 03:48 AM

The hate transfers only work one way so far as i know, but thats from a wizzy/warlock and pali perspective. If the pali puts the xfer on the assassin, then the assassin puts the xfer on the pali, if it follows the same mechanics as with wizzy/pali, then the assassins will actually transfer, and the palis will not do anything. If you have for example 2 palis (a and b) and a monk (c) and pali a puts amends on pali b, then pali b puts amends on monk c and the monk uses devastation fist for 30k damage, it will xfer the according hate value to b, then transfer the according value from b to a. Theres no limit as far as I can tell from target to target, but there can't be any transfers double backing.

More simply, the best way to do a hate transfer would be to have the pali amend another taunting class (monks tend to work really well) or someone with extreme damage and have the assassin transfer onto the pali. If the assassin is the highest form of damage by at least the hate transfer % in comparison to the difference between your amends and the assassins hate transfer, then amend the assassin for a higher efficiency transfer. Basically, its a comparison game. "Is 4k dps on a 20% xfer with a 41% amends on a 2k dps better than a 4k dps on a 41% xfer and a 2k dps on a 10% xfer" or what ever the case works out to be.

Stonestrong · 06-14-2008, 02:08 PM

I have seen people argue this to death. I would recomend doing tests yourself, but heres a tip. I always cast my amends last, after every other transfer and I don't have any aggro issues.

boli · 06-14-2008, 03:12 PM

one thing that is for certain tho... if you cast a transfer on someone and they cast a trasnfer on you... the HIGHEST PERCENTAGE transfer is the "active" one. As for the order of transfer... I've seen this argued to death myself bu i always cast amend FIRST exp if dealing with a coercer in the group but that's jut my preference

Onra · 06-14-2008, 05:41 PM

~~All~~ most hate transfers stack and are normalized around an unknown value ;)

Scayre · 06-19-2008, 10:01 PM

From Aeralik, here: Please adjust hate transfer cap

The total cap is 50% transferred.

For any given transferor: 50/ (Total hate transfer if greater then 50) * Individual transfer amount = real transfer value.

So in essence, a paladin amending for 41% and a swash transferring 19% to the paladin would result in numbers like this:
Amends target transfers 34.2%
Swash transfers 15.8%

And yes hate transfers stack: Do hate transfers stack (work with a swashy and Assassin)?

Kiljoi · 06-20-2008, 12:10 PM

and the saga continues...

I cast ammends last, usually an assassin because they can hit with a bow while its on the way and blow it up when it gets here. If its a multiple mob encounter warlock.

Would it be fair to say that Sigil isn't going to do shit for us if we are already at the 50% cap due to hate transfers in the group?

Scayre · 06-20-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiljoi

and the saga continues...

Would it be fair to say that Sigil isn't going to do shit for us if we are already at the 50% cap due to hate transfers in the group?

No, because sigil also reduces the hate generated by the other players in your group. So while you would see no added benefit to the percentage of hate transferred to you, the other players in your group would see a helpful reduction in their hate generation.

I have an 80 Pal and an 80 swash and I have seen no benefit in casting amends before or after another hate transfer or casting my swash's hate transfer before or after.