Ripchord

Well you know when that update comes, they are still going to take away amends, at least in the form of hate transfer and rework it into something slightly less useful. I am actually wondering if anyone has read anything on the forums to give hints as to what they are actually going to do with Paladins.

It's not only that they shouldn't be nerfed any further, they should actually be unnerfed, to be honest...as one experienced paladin who was absolutely against the changes in LU51 put it, Amends was an ability that was slapped in there to cover up other huge mechanical flaws that arose from the paladin class.

That doesn't mean that in this day and age they are useless, don't get me wrong, I like having the class in my raids personally, because they can play from a few different roles.

However, does anyone have any good ideas that could make the paladin stronger? My best one, personally, has to do with the single target ward...Make THAT the defining paladin spell, if anything.

How? Maybe by adding a damage proc to it. For example, the ward hits the target for X amount of ward against damage, but in beating on the ward, the enemy would be somehow damaging himself, either to the tune of a % chance to hit on him when the ward was up, or more basic but definitely more useful...a % of the ward being returned directly in damage to the mob.

So like...say the mob hits the MT guardian with a paladin ward on him. Let's say for the sake of ease that the ward was 1000 damage, and the returning proc rate was figured to best work on test servers, at say 30%. Then the mob would be hit for 300 damage in spanking on the main tank.

The higher the version of the ward then, the more opportunities to do damage. Say during a mid to long fight you manage to keep warding the main tank (perhaps yourself), for a tune of 20,000 points of damage. At 30% this ward would return 6000 damage to the mob. Now say the ward version was upgraded to Master I and did 25,000 points of healing, it would also be 7500 points of damage, so it scales properly in a % form like that, whereas if it was a pure damage % proc (ie...when target is damaged with melee weapon, this spell has a 20% chance to...) it would be less viable, because perhaps the ward would get one shotted through by a particularly tough epic rendering the spell, again, near useless in terms of damage form.

This would help bring the paladin more in line with SK, because an SK would still be more damage capable...but where the lifetap can only land a heal on the SK (but always do damage to the mob) the ward could land a pally on the heal and damage parse AT THE SAME TIME, even when he is not main tanking. Is something like that not the whole point of the Paladin class? To viably help tank, heal, and damage all at once?

If that's too overpowering, another suggestion is to proc a threat increase to the tank, instead of damage. I'm thinking SoE is less likely to go for this, since then the Paladin is basically helping taunt, where they are trying to make hate control more MT vs the mob...reducing passive hate gains, ie someone else creating hate FOR you.

Before I put this on SoE forums I kinda wanted to run it by you guys and see if it made any sense...if not, and it's ridiculous, flame away, just wanted to throw it out there as a thought, even if it's one SoE could never be convinced of, you never know, they are probably open to suggestions on paladins right now, because they don't know what to do with em if they lose amends, rather than major increases to their dps and hps capablities which would also make them too overpowered on a base to base ratio.

Stonestrong

Can someone give me a summary of this cause i don't want to read it all.....?

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Jeal

i don't know.. sounds like he wants to turn our ward into what the sks got.. i dont' personally like it

also i definitely don't care for the threat proc on the ward


personally.. i think leaving us alone is probably the best bet.. put the change to divine favor through.. maybe give us a stoneskin trigger on our emergency heal *shrugs

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Anurra

Overview:
1. Lets make ward the defining skill now:
2. Make the ward into a Damage Shield. (30% of ward deals damage)
-OR-
3. Make the ward have a threat proc when damaged.

Anurra

I liked some of the changes in the previous update, mostly on how crusaders received +parry to their defensive stance and then the changes to DF.

I just think the simple thing, for the most part in this second phase is to increase fighter taunts by a lot, and add some new ones (both ST and encounter). Then the classes won't have to be butchered and be told they have different roles. After that is done, each class can be looked at for smaller improvements, like +parry on crusaders, removing the 50% restriction from DA, etc.


On a side RPish/lore note:
I know this won't happen and won't be a popular idea, but I wish they retooled our abilities so they would actually be useful against undead mobs. When I first started playing I was severely disappointed in the lack of undead abilities. The paladin in EQ1 had some uber abilities for fighting undead monsters (32k damage on melee crits).

boli

the biggest gripe was the stances - everythgin else was fine

Ripchord

Noted guys, and while I was waiting for responses on this thread, I was checking into the EQ2players forums. I agree, Divine Favor would be the perfect upgrade. I'm thinking I was looking at this from the wrong angle now, it seems most of the paladins posting on EQ2 forums and flames want more tank viability, period, damage absorption, stoneskins and the like.

Personally I was just trying to think of something big and decent that, since amends is going to likely get very nerfed somehow, would give pallys a boost.

I'm trying to upgrade on test server right now so I can see EXACTLY for myself what is planned. Thing is, I can import a levelled paladin on to test, but can't import the other tank classes at high level to compare. But I really want to see what they are doing with amends more than anything.

Stonestrong

Upgrade Divine Favor like it is on test and we are gtg......

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Sajen

my insight for stances...if u want us to even use D stance?...ever? heres an idea.. Make it worth it to use.. i.e if u have to MT or OT an avatar ok.. cool.. D Stance sould be focused toward serious single tgt aggro thats it... and make O stance for AoE Aggro, rather be an ability simular to berserkers w/ the 25% of dmg is turned into hate, or a beefed up version of new 5 set bonus..remove the dehate off O stance and let us go ape shit on aoe encounters to atleast we can be versatile. I dont care, dont punish us for being able to take a hit just fine in o stance..

Stonestrong

D Stance is for fags tbh.......

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