boli

Recently I was looking at the offcial forums for a "paladin issues thread" or something similar a list of compiled issues and possible fixes.... well I gave up after I approached 2007.

The point is we don't really have an issues thread; and normally that never bothered me. but after getting back into the game moreso and listening to whineing groups going : " but an SK can pull the entire room and survive, but SK can do double our DPS"; even tho I know a well played paladin rivals an SKthe popular consensus seems to be as of late is "I'm a great paladin why don't I betray?"

We all know that the SKs are overpowered right now... seriously OPed, in fact with the proc nerf looking at the parses both from myself and the SKs it seems that we lost a greater percentage of dps than the SKs did due to the proc changes (20-30% is a normal estimate).

But anyways it turns out that paladins are almost the least played fighter class at lvl 80 now... and we used to be the most played - that's a lot of people who have ceased to play a paladin or betrayed.

But yet after everyone is leaving the class and our weaknesses are becoming more and more apparant in this exxpansion not a single "issues" thread has been created aside3 from the "stonewall sucks" saga on the forums.

So I'm calling to all paladins who read this forum to get into therapy and talk about our issues; lets discuss what we want, what we need, and put it together in an easy to read post and have our class leader (stonestrong) have the final say and put up said post in the offcial forums

I know 90% of the time these posts are ignored, and the major issues are overlooked - but if a single point we make on the issues is both looked at and delt with it will be worth it

So; lets get it going... I'll post my stuff tomorrow or so after I think about it for a whlie but having "issuse; reason ; possible fix" kind of format will help a lot to mould this into a worthwhile discussion.

Stonestrong

Sounds great, the issues that would top the list for me are.

1. Stonewall should be upgraded.
2. Removing the stifle from divine favor completely.
3. Aura of the crusader should work on incurables also.

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Salarionn

Why not just ask them to make you guys completely resistant to damage while your at it sir.

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Stonestrong

No trolling in this thread plz sir, stay on topic or i will be forced to remove your posts!

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Jeal

fix stonewall thats it..

the divine favor thing can be cancelled and is easier to do so with the new cancel command..

aura of the crusader is fine there should be some things that we just can't be lol immune to

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boli

Stonewall:

This ability is vastly underpowered; there are three comparisons it can be compared to. Shadowknights "furor" because its an end line ability TSO ability and requires the same amount of AA points to get. Although compared with this everything is underpowered.

It can also be compared with the guardians "block" ability in the EoF tree which it requires more AA to get and has 50% longer recast timer. Especially when you consider that the warrior AA ine means a heavy reduction in recast timers means this advantage is increased more-so; even if you compare "can;t use CAs and recovery time 2s" into it it turns into more an annoyance than a significant advantage.

Amnd finally it can be compared with the zerker's "wall of force"; which is similar in scope but prtects versus TWO attacks and also has a handy "only if incoming damage is 30% of higher" clause to it meaning it is not wasted on lower attacks.

All three abilities are similar in scope to the Stonewall ability but each one is superior; even the EoF Guardian ability coudl be consider supirior as the reduced recast means it can be used with more regularity. and comp[arsed to the other two abilitys its a joke.

Possible Fix:

Reducing the cast rate of Stonewall; sure its not the best ability in the world but if it was able to cast it more often it can become more powerful for a quick and easy fix. tweaking it to a 60s recst to mirror it in line with the guardian "block" ability seems the most logival as that is the ability it is most like.

Alternativly adding additional triggers and/or health requirement will bring it more into line with the zerker and shadowknight abilities; however in my oppinion removing all the triggers and giving a 10s 100% block rate will be the most effecitive solution giving tyhe paladins an ability to time and block the larger death touches is more in line with the end line abilities of TSO; although increasing the recast timer may have to be looked into.

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Scaling Ward - Incoming Damage

A Paladins ward is the most powerful ability we have to decrease the incoming damage; whilst guardians have the temporary buffs that affect mitigation and shield effecitiveness; zerkers have similar along with adrenaline and shadowknights have lifetaps we have our heals of which the ward is the most pwoerful.

THe only problem is whilst the other abilitys scale more-so as the incoming damage increases the ward works into a more "one shot" affair which does not sit well with the 1.5s casting speed which means we can spend an inordinate amoutn of time actually casting the ward only to have it drop once more.

Considering that the changes to the fighter classes will be more into fighters generating self hate the ward will become less and less a useful tool to decrease incoming damage and more and more a liability; which is quite ironic considering that its actually the biggest utility we bring to a raid.


Possible Fix:

The ward needs to be looked into more; most will say that increasing the ward to a higher level woudl be a fix but I disagree - it will fix it only temporary untill the incoming damage is once again increased and not only that we'lll step on healres toes more-so.

What I suggest is a reduction in the cast speed of the ward; intially it was instant cast but a 0.5s casting speed is not out of the question; not only that having a hate damage shield fixed into the ward which will generate hate towards the paladin (much more than heal agro generates).

Whilst the warriors have their tempoary buffs they can recast them regually and unlike the ward they do not require in one hit needing a constant upkeep in order to maintain it. the paladin has to be at their most defensive spend 1.5s every 15s plus recovery time or 4s out of every 30s (full duration of the warrior buffs) for an ability which can be brought down with a single hit.

The casting speed for ward must be reduced substatially.

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Paladin and Heals

This could be a sore subject for many in the paladin comunity but it is one area I am in highest support for. We are not healers; but I believe that at our most defensive we should be makign full use of our healing abilities in order to be at our most effective.

And so far this is proved correct in that if I can heal myself for 20% of the incoming damage thats 20% of the damage the healer never has to heal. HOWEVER there is another class which uses heals in a similar manner, the shadowknight. With their lifetaps they can generate heals with every one of their attacks (almost) and actually they heal for a very similar amopunt a paladin heals for; but with one exception:

What they can do with a single push of the button (a lifetap) they not only deal damage but also heal it; in order to do the same we have to use a spell or CA and then cast a heal right after or 0.5s (CA) + 0.5s (recovery) + 1.5s (heal) which equals 2.5s to be as effective as a shadowknights single CA (0.5s). Considering we are meant to be the healerdin or the tank which relys more on heals for our defence having a sister class which is as effective in healing themselves as we are but at a fraction of the casting speed makes it seem almost not worth casting our heals.,

Possible Fix:

We are tanks first and foremost and as such our heals should be used to protect us first before they help the group... our self regenerating ward was a step in the right direction... it wasn;t a lot but it was always up and more importantly it was a cast and forget heal increasing our defence without needing to spend 1.5s casting it.

With that in mind I actually remembered a special little item you can obtain in shard of hate which *does* have Paladin written all over it.

\aITEM 2007998423 1561213652:Star of Malice\/a

Unfortunatly this little item is "secondary only" else it would have been equiped in my ranged slot and never taken out as it is ideal for the paladin.

For those unfamilar with it; its an item which procs 4 swarm pets which give 150 ward and AoE immune to the group; and they stack. Whilst that may be a tad overpowered it does demonstrate what I was considering for the constant button spam.

If one of our buffs meant we "proced" a ward; or a small wards which like the swarm pets above stacked it would go a long way towards brigding the gap between the two crusaders; afterall we want to heal in order to be defensive... but at the same time having to cast two abilities in order to do the same as 1 ability an SK can do rubs salt in the "SKS are so OPed why not betray" wound.

Anyways; those are my 3 "big issues" which I think we need looking into more; whilse I agree with stone about aura of the crusader; I can't bring myself to push for divine favour considering out of the 4 tank classes we have the second best death save; even if its downside is a minor incomviniance at least we dont; die from it.

marcusavalon

Well I am not actually that worried I play in a non hardcore raiding guild I dont think we are that bad as a class at the moment.

Yes SK's are completely overpowered at the moment and every alt aholic in the game has rolled one but its not so long a go that they all betrayed to Paladin and you hardly saw one. It's Just part the inept handling of fighter classes; balance what balance. They will get hit with the Nerf bat when SOE start tinkering again. We never were really a DPS class and we parse well now compared with most fighters.

With regard to fixes The stoneskin we have is a bit lame its 1/2 as good as a guards theirs takes two hits, maybe a faster resue timer would be a better way to go so we can pop the thing more often.

Aura of the crusader is pretty good no real complaints.

The stifle on Devine favor is a pain and if we could loose that it would be top of my list for fixes.


As for Paladins being the least played class thats great. I can remember back at level 50 when there were so many Paladins kicking around you struggled to get guilded yet alone a raid slot. Then nobody wanted any fighter except a Guard. I've played my Paladin for so long now that I cant imagine doing anything else if theres not a role for him I will just hang up my spurs.

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Jeal

I don't believe sks are OP i think you guys are simply not playing at a high enough level to override the one gimp feature that they have an advantage over us in.. which would be the endline..

our mythical constant 10% heal and the self regenerating ward more than makes up for lifetaps that sk's do.. oh.. not to mention the 10% damage reduction before that heal as well..

we get better overall defensive abilities.. they get a few more offensive and of course their endline.. but thats the end of it as far as being better.. most everything else is fairly close and there needs to be no significant changes...

btw.. our ward is frontside making it infinitely more useful than the constant dink and dunk heals from sk's attacks

i'm dissapointed in you people!

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xjbx

What's the command to cancel it? Macroable?

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Aravis Tarkheena 80 Assassin Befallen
Anradin Tarkaan 80 Paladin // Alambil Jerk`Store 80 Dirge

Stonestrong

Sks also get 10% Reuse and Casting speed for the group. On top of having blood letter, reaver, deathmarch, AND Furor. It has nothing to do with whos playing the best and who isn't. Fundamentally the classes have a huge discrepincy.

As far as people just not playing good enough, well since there are a million and 1 brand new scrub ass SKs, by comparison a vet pally will outshine them everytime. Of course player skill is always trump against gear and or class restrictions.

Personally, I wouldn't know about any of that cause I'm pretty much the best Crusader to ever play the game. I just try to get things balanced out to make me look that much better, if its even possible.....

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