Viable exile faction, PvP writs, and Raid/Dynamic PvP (warning: long) - Page 4

firamas · 01-08-2008, 12:53 PM

hurrah, some intelligent, coherent discussion from dankshasta in an argument!? i think i might fucking faint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dankshasta

I digress, I do not believe Europa could have finished the EoF content without the nerfs SOE put in a few key encounters.

the aspects that were nerfed are relatively minor (compared to the entire encounter's difficulty) and did not require a huge amount of skill to deal with prior to the nerf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dankshasta

I also do not believe that any of the exiled raiders would enjoy the same success if they were to come back to the factions. I have been told by Kraken leadership before that they are there to Raid more successfully. I'm quite sure that if your guild leaders thought they could raid to 95%+ effectiveness as you claim, they would be back in a faction taking advantage of all the faction benefits. You're kidding yourself to think otherwise.

after having experienced exile for about 5 months now, i see no "faction benefits" left to take advantage of... unless you consider being protected by the safety blanket of 50% of the server being on your team to be a benefit. which some people do. i'd rather see everyone con hostile though, but hey, that's just me. =)

note: this may or may not be another attempt to help make exile a viable faction! in any game with a FFA faction available, you can't really call yourself a "hardcore" PvPer when half the server is allied with you. until you bring up a track window, run through a zone, and every single person on it cons white instead of cyan/null, you haven't experienced what a PvP server should be like. i'm surprised more of the PvP based guilds haven't come to exile to increase their... well... PvP! although thinking at the quality and mindset of most players on Nagafen, i guess that's not TOO surprising that they want to stay in a city. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dankshasta

I still think it is highly hypocritical of you to make some of these judgements when you have almost zero one faction raid expierience to base your opinion's on. What "wall' did Monged hit? I think the guild Monged was a cool bunch of guys, but your raid expierience in a one faction set-up was very minimal.

i wasn't in Monged to raid. i was in Monged because i was stationed in Japan, deployed out of port 8 months out of the year, and couldn't be in a US based raid guild due to both the time zone differences and the time away from home. Monged was an awesome bunch of guys and a great PvP guild. we only started raiding towards the very end of my time in the guild, and that was with Papadoo (who went to Europa) as the primary raid leader. for a guild of a bunch of PvPers with extremely limited raid experience, we did pretty well under his raid leadership until everyone broke off to join their other guilds.

oh, and let me clarify that. by "we did pretty well" i mean that we took a guild where only half a dozen people (who had only recently joined Monged after the server merge, btw) had any real raid experience in eq2 and we started in on the KoS raid content with few hitches. no, we didn't get far in EoF, but we never had time to before the guild fractured.

Darkhain · 01-08-2008, 04:32 PM

Did Europa killed contested Mayong or Avatars? no...

City is possible but way harder than exile, you can't deny it.

firamas · 01-08-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkhain

Did Europa killed contested Mayong or Avatars? no...

City is possible but way harder than exile, you can't deny it.

they never even took many, if any, serious pulls on either mob. europa was still a young guild and knew where they were in progression... why would they waste time on contested mobs that onyx or kraken would have interfered with when they were working on wuoshi?

and city raiding is not "way harder" for the reasons you dumbasses say it is, its way harder because all the people who really want to raid are in exile. don't tell me "i can't deny it", like fuck i can't... i can and DO deny it. and i've presented rational, thought out arguments as to WHY things are the way they are. meanwhile, everyone in a city can't get past the "fuck me? fuck YOU!" level of arguing, and has yet to impress me with valid points of argument in this discussion.

convince me, using reason and logic, why you need a defiler, brigand, assassin, bruiser, SK, or necro to raid T8 over their counterparts? templar is the only class over which i'd be beating my head against a wall if i didn't have atm. qeynos classes can raid. qeynos players cannot.

Dankshasta · 01-08-2008, 10:04 PM

There are alot of things you're not seeing, it isn;t just the classes that you don;t have, it's the redundancy of having multiple same classes. You end up with 3 to 4 brigs, two defilers, 2 Necros, it isnt just losing the debuffs from certain classes, it is an expotential problem becuz you can't replace them in any sort of usefull way. Again i could add to this a myriad of differences, but you're "rational" argument is, as I've stated several times already, without any significant expierience in a one faction raid. It would be the same as me trying to make a insightful analysis of the everyday differences between living in a communist nation, and a true democracy. I have visited a communist country, but I lack the expieriences to truly make that argument.

Paikis · 01-09-2008, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paikis

The Exile advantage most certainly is HUGE. Having a brig's debuffs in the same raid as an Illusionists, with a Templar in the MT group is MASSIVE. Let's take a look at *JUST* the bonus of having the extra stoneskins and the increased proc chance, being applied ONLY to the stoneskins buff:

Group: (Freeport - Qeynos)
Guardian - Guardian
Defiler - Mystic
Inquisitor - Templar
Assasin - Swashbuckler
Dirge - Dirge
Coercer - Illusionist

Pretty standard MT group setups, nothing special there.

Now let's take a look at the stoneskin procs. (ignoring set bonuses)
(FP)Dirge: PoS- 12% +20%(LotD) = 14.4%
(FP) Total: 14.4% Stoneskin

(Q) Dirge: PoS- 12% +20%(Lotd) +20%(Blessings) = 16.8%
(Q) Templar: UB- 11% +20% (LotD) +20% (Blessings) = 15.4%
(Q) Total: 32.2% Stoneskin

How is that not logical? And how is having more than 1 in every 3 hits absorbed not a hell of alot better than 1 in 6?

Here's some more 'logic' for you, although I suspect my points will be dismissed without you even trying to counter them. If they don't say what you want them to, just ignore em right?

Paladin vs Shadowknight. Paladin makes an awesome offtank, can taunt for 23 hate positions with a single spell, can stack his wards on the MT, can stack his direct heals on the MT, has the best uncontested avoidance of any tank and can cover the MT with it. Also has amends to keep the agro hungry warlocks alive. Shadowknight... well they have deathmarch... and I guess they can put their reactive ward on the MT (which BTW is nowhere near as effective as the pally's ward)

Mystic vs Defiler. Pretty much the same really, defiler is slightly better for a MT group, and I beleive the mystics get better debuffs and they can pump out some very nice DPS as well.

Monk vs Bruiser. This one pretty much comes down to Drag vs the best raid-wide buff in the game, plus pell and tsunami. I don't think i need to go into this anymore do I really?

Inquisitor vs Templar. Templar wins everytime. Their proc increaser even makes them a pretty good choice for DPS groups, but their enhanced heals, their lotto heals and their stoneskin really blow the inquisitor out of the water for healing. If you want a healer, you take a templar. Templar can use their AAs to basically get a second single-target reactive, which, and I quote from the AA: 'With enough points, this can approach the effectiveness of your Vitae line'.

Swash vs Brigand. i think this is one where freeport wins. The brigand's debuffs will increase a raid's DPS significantly, but then so will a swashbuckler's, and the swashies have more personal DPS... I'll give this to the Brig, but only just.

Conjuror vs Necromancer. Pretty much a question of flavour. No difference really.

Illusionist vs Coercer. Illusionist hands down. You want one Coercer for your MT group (maybe) and after that, they're not that great. Sure they have a couple of nice buffs (not even close to being as good as illusionists') and they can do some nice things with power... but they have HUGE issues with damage and im pretty sure their stuff doesn't stack with other coercers. Illusionists however have insane buffs (Time compression, illusionary arm haste etc) and they have better DPS as well, without the problem of having to have your avoidance specced tank (cos they ALL are now) having to be hit before they can do any damage.

Assasin vs Ranger. This one is a matter of gear, with Assasins slightly infront. Pretty much the same as the conj vs necro one though, just a matter of flavour.

Popsi · 01-09-2008, 05:53 AM

thanks for letting us know the very basics in the classes pakis, your still a noob. on a noob server, noob.

noob.

Paikis · 01-09-2008, 06:14 AM

Wow, I totally didn't see that shot coming. I mean its not like i totally called it in my above post. Can't win an arguement by providing an actual arguement? Who cares! Just insult the guy and try to make people think he's stupid.

Congratulations, you win.

Your avatar is very fitting by the way, describes you to a T. You seem to have misplaced the 'small' on your sign though. (see, I can win arguements by name-calling too)

firamas · 01-09-2008, 10:53 AM

most people just completely ignore Popsi, and he goes away. (or, he keeps posting worthless shit in the thread anyway... which is still an unfortunate possibility)

Popsi · 01-09-2008, 03:10 PM

become, i dont think anybody reads anything you post, your shit.

paki's, your a noob.

Davram · 01-10-2008, 02:48 AM

I am intimately aware of what either side is capable of and can say with certainty that there is no encounter that we have already cleared in RoK that my guild would not be able to kill given a week of work (if that) on Qeynos OR Freeport side. I say this because of my guild's long history of being limited to either side and our ability to break down encounters to match each side's strengths.

We are exile for the raiding, yes. But that's because it makes recruitment easier and lessens the learning curve on alot of fights (as stated above in thread - no class is really necessary, but falls into the "nice to have" category). If you think something is impossible, it just means that you haven't taken enough pulls on it yet.