Viable exile faction, PvP writs, and Raid/Dynamic PvP (warning: long) - Page 5

Darkhain · 01-10-2008, 07:41 AM

As I already said, it's not impossible but harder.

Dankshasta · 01-10-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davram

I am intimately aware of what either side is capable of and can say with certainty that there is no encounter that we have already cleared in RoK that my guild would not be able to kill given a week of work (if that) on Qeynos OR Freeport side. I say this because of my guild's long history of being limited to either side and our ability to break down encounters to match each side's strengths.

We are exile for the raiding, yes. But that's because it makes recruitment easier and lessens the learning curve on alot of fights (as stated above in thread - no class is really necessary, but falls into the "nice to have" category). If you think something is impossible, it just means that you haven't taken enough pulls on it yet.

Sure Davram, you would have cleared it in a city, your history in the cities raiding totally back this up................oh wait a minute?

lost · 01-10-2008, 11:25 AM

Paikis, your stoneskin example is misleading because you aren't correctly using the numbers. You have to remember that each stoneskin is an independent proc, and that you could get multiple procs on the same hit. Not only that, but I'm going to assume each guild is using a guardian that can take advantage of the stoneskins from sentinel sphere (and potentially from dreadscale greaves as well). As an exile, I can take advantage of all 4 of those stoneskins, and I have rarely seen stoneskin block more than 15% of incoming damage on any prolonged fight (w/ it normally hovering around 12%).

Or you could take Kraken's first Wuoshi kill as an example of skill and experience being better than pure class makeup. Consistently, they were using a mystic, templar, and warden for healing in the MT group (mystic for the noxious ward), but the night of the first kill, both the normal mystic and templar were MIA, and they killed it with a defiler, inquisitor, and warden healing (might have had an illusionist instead of coercer in the group too). What it comes down to is experienced, skilled players will provide a greater margin of error to beat a single encounter than any buff in the game. Most players in cities on PvP don't have the experience, skill, or dedication--much less an enough of a guild working together to beat non-trivial content.

firamas · 01-10-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lost

What it comes down to is experienced, skilled players will provide a greater margin of error to beat a single encounter than any buff in the game. Most players in cities on PvP don't have the experience, skill, or dedication--much less an enough of a guild working together to beat non-trivial content.

you're so right it hurts. however, try telling this to someone who ISNT part of a guild where everyone is a skilled, experienced, dedicated raider. you'll never convince them that their core of 6-12 hardcore raiders is being dragged down by the other 30-40 random people who fill in the other spots on the raid; that maybe, just maybe, they aren't surrounded by as many good players as they thought. they will vehemently defend their guildmates honor, even to the point of ludicrousy.

you can see this even in guilds like Kraken and Onyx... when the same group of people has been killing a non-trivial encounter over and over for weeks straight, everything goes smooth. you don't have to explain the fight. you don't have to worry about someone fucking up due to ignorance. everyone knows their role and knows what to expect from the people around them at certain points in the fight. you all run around the corner, the big nasty dragon is staring at you, the main tank simply says "heals up, going in 10", and then [insert a blur of ownage here] a few minutes later the mob is dead.

now if you get some new recruits who havent seen that encounter before, try to substitute 3-4 of them into the raid and do it that way. even if they're non-critical classes it'll still be a huge disruption and likely lead to a couple wipes. god forbid they're a healer or another critical class...

Davram · 01-10-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dankshasta

Sure Davram, you would have cleared it in a city, your history in the cities raiding totally back this up................oh wait a minute?

There's less of a learning curve on exile, and things go farm status quicker. That's why we're exile to not only to be an OK guild, but the top guild. That's not to say that city-side guilds don't have certain perks that help lessen the learning curve, such as class defining PvP gear and consumable merchant items. But once you learn a fight and have people paying attention, you can do it with either class make-up.

Our history of raiding in Freeport before EoF, learning Chel'drak and then being able to clear it again within 1 week of the entire guild betraying to Qeynos (losing masters, and learning new classes), would entirely back this up.

Dankshasta · 01-11-2008, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davram

Our history of raiding in Freeport before EoF, learning Chel'drak and then being able to clear it again within 1 week of the entire guild betraying to Qeynos (losing masters, and learning new classes), would entirely back this up.

No, not really...

firamas · 01-11-2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dankshasta

No, not really...

Yes, yes really.

See what I did there? I contradicted your point, but I did it at an equally baseless level. Since you are providing no factually grounded arguments to back up your opinion, I save myself a great amount of time by responding with equally useless replies instead of continuing to discuss the point at hand using those pesky lengthy, well thought out, logically sound posts. While not recommended for novice posters, this tactic can be both hilarious and fun for all ages.

Saracen · 01-11-2008, 10:24 AM

lol@thewholefactionscan'traidarguement

when a faction guild reaches the same progression that we were before we exiled in rok you may then discuss the impossibility of successful raiding as a faction in rok.

Until then every day longer that you take to clear to the point that we reached a good long time ago as a faction only further confirms that it is indeed your players/leaders/some other shit holding you back.

Dankshasta · 01-11-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

Yes, yes really.

He used Cheldrak as the fucking example? STFU already!

Taear · 01-12-2008, 07:35 PM

To (try) and return to what the original post was about, I don't think that just because you'd need all three factions to complete writs would encourage people to become that faction.
Right now on Venekor, Freeport outnumbers Qeynos. By quite a lot. There are also (as Paikis said) no exiles whatsoever.

So your writ system comes into the game and nobody on the server can get any PvP items. This isn't going to encourage people to exile or to switch faction. It's just going to encourage them to quit.

Then again I'm sure the PvP writs will be balanced with Nagafen in mind and Venekor and Vox will be fucked anyway.