Oshef

The class defining weakness of clothies is their inability to absorb damage. Manashield + dispersion negates that weakness completely.

To put this into perspective, imagine 4 peices of gear that would give guardian's a 50% chance to proc an extra 2k worth of damage everytime they auto attack.

Daimyo

IMO there is nothing unbalanced about a non-sorceror having these 4 items.. for those that stated a non-sorceror is a solid 1 vs 1 must be joking. In 1 vs 1 my assassin detonates non-sorcerors without these items tbh..

These items make it possible for non-sorceror's to solo. Still no where near as good as scouts but viable!

HOWEVER, combined with MS.. they are OP imo

~Daimyo the last shogun

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The daimyo (大名, daimyō) were the most powerful feudal rulers from the 10th century to the 19th century in Japan. From the shugo of the muromachi period through the sengoku to the daimyo of the Edo period, the rank had a long and varied history. It was usually, though not exclusively, from these warlords that a shogun arose.

firamas

i will repeat: then you aren't fighting good mages.

you also didn't list any kind of circumstances or anything. are you jumping them while they're in combat, like most scouts prefer to do? are we talking duels or fights out in the open? are they well equipped? are you using every single potion and clickie available to give yourself an advantage... and are they?

i hear a bunch of crybaby bullshit from mages about how they're sooooooo weak in 1v1's. well, hey, hello? genius? you were the ones that rolled up a CLOTH WEARING SPELL CASTER. quit your fucking bitching and moaning and learn how to take advantage of the strengths of your class. i've fought shitty mages and blown them up in 7 seconds, and then i've fought mages who were on top of their game and ended up killing me even after i jumped them. that shit's embarassing, i will admit. doesn't happen often, but there are definitely good, solid players out there behind a few of the mage toons.

and again, for the 81321th time... GET INTO A GODDAMN GROUP WHERE CLASS BALANCE ALL FALLS INTO PLACE. 1v1 is a rock-paper-scissors game; enter into it at your own risk. 6v6 is where everything makes sense... mages can do their happy magical shit in relative peace, tanks have a critical role, healers can contribute their main strengths, and scouts suddenly aren't anywhere near as imposing as they are in a 1v1. it's a fucking miracle how that shit works out, isnt it?

p.s. i hate you all a little bit more every day

irad

Again i dont have an hour to post something in the clear and proper english you all seem to love. Since communication recquires a geat deal of effort from both sides, dont read further if you don't want to. I am actually skipping many obvious steps when i reason.

Why is this thread misleading us?

1/ Kruhl is telling nonesense and exagerating everything (that wasn't 3 dps classes, they were not all 80, he used all his CAs and burst dps when he jumped 2 of us after the sk used his HT, that didn't last 3mins, etc.) I think there is nothing true in that post not that the brig is exagerating but just because he is too much of a noob to analyse anything on his own.

2/ Most of us are talking about your feelings about it. There is no fact, and nothing a dev could work on. If you want to be trusted, detail everything that did the wl and analyse the logs. You have to list every actions that induced the logs you will be showing on a SS, or it(s just meaningless.

3/ You can't even define the terms you use peremptorilly. What is balance for you? It's obvious for Kruhl balance only means that he should kill anything in 3s. Chimp has a point on that one. I think it's only bringing a little more balance in the game. I think also that balance should have a sense in gvg AND in 1v1.

4/ I tried to point the fact that everything is situationnal but most of all that some classes like scouts can choose their fights most of the time. In that case balance would mean to weaken the scouts for them to be balanced even in the cases when they find the best moment to attack (90% of the time if they are no noobs) When all the CAs are down, temporary buffs too, when they dont surprise you and so on, that is not the right time to engage. However if they do engage they deserve to die and pretty quick because they are stupid. I think that Chimp meant the same thing speaking of the ability to choose one's fights.

5/ Because balance recquires to be situationnal (or the game would be boring) the only thing to work on is the balance of the classes in their effort to get an advantagous situation to engage, which seems impossible with the pvp rules that are implemented on the pvp servers atm (incombat/out of combat/runspeed/evac/track) I should developp that one since i skipped to many steps.

Fairness in a game where :

Some might track and some not.
Some have spells to precast, some havent.
Soem use god spells, pvp merchant stuff, some dont.
Some have immunities to snare and root, some havent.
Some can evac, some cannot.
Runspeed are very different. (tinkering, race spells, class speeds)

is almost impossible to get in 1v1.

They would have to change so many things that i doubt the devs will ever try. That is why some people are only after gvg which is much easier to balance (Become is quite right about that even if he is a brig). I think that they are turning the pvp in a gvg game just because it's easier for them to do, let's see what LU42 will say.


For all those things i think it's pretty indecent to whine about the fairness of pvp when you play a scout like a brig. But that complaint made me laugh a lot so that was enjoyable.

Fibs

Become...

Where exactly does it say that mages should be gimp solo and totally reliant of having a group in this game? Was that stated by the developers somewhere, or is it just your personal opinon?

Let's be clear on something right away: This is not just a group based game, it is obviously designed for both group and solo play. That is why everyone wants to play a class that does well on both - which again is why some classes are severely overplayed while others hardly exist. Especially on the PvP servers.

So please spare us the "get a group"- bullshit, ok? That's just too easy to say for someone who plays a brigand. What this game needs badly is better class balance, not nerfs to items that are used by some of the weakest classes out there.

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Yeah, I post because I suck at PvP. What's your excuse?

Manratten

I don't know a whole lot about PvP, so actually, it means I have no firm stance on anything.

So...this post seems strange to me, (the OPs), because I while I get the gist of his "problem", I am not following the reasoning.

1) The OP won the encounter. That screams that not only are the items not overpowered, heck, they are too weak. Now, that may not be the case, but if you submit one combat for someone to judge, than that one combat is all I have to look at. So, the OP in my mind is telling me that not only is he personally way overpowered, he is saying he is overpowered no matter what items the enemy has.

2) Another argument was to get a group. Ok, perhaps I misread this, but this combat was 3v3. Ummm...that is a group. Ok, so in the group v group combat listed, (and again, I agree there is only one combat to go off of) the person complaining won. They didn't win 3-2....they won 3-0.

3) I know of nothing I have ever read that said 1v1 combats meant a cloth wearing person should be instant dust to a scout. Wouldn't the goal of PvP to make everyone have an equal chance of winning, so that the person of greater skill would generally triumph. This is likely not 100% attainable, but wouldn't that be the goal. This seems like it is doing just that, making it closer to even.

Am I missing something?

lost

The problem is that mages should have to rely on keeping a scout away from them (just like a mob in pve) through snares, roots, teleports, mez, stun, etc to prevent the scout from tearing them a new asshole--but the game's mechanics absolutely suck and Fireflyte decided to create items that let them tank instead of making items that help their snares, roots, teleports, mezzes, stuns, etc be more effective.

Slyck

Apparently this is a little known fact about Dispersion, and how it works...so I'm going to state it.

For dispersion to proc, we actually have to get HIT. So the max amount of times dispersion can proc would be every other attack we are hit with. Meaning: Hit, absorb, hit, absorb, hit, absorb, hit, absorb...

Assuming that, that would mean the mage would have to have 100% stoneskin, when the max a solo person can get is 48%. So under that math, a warlock with 4 pieces (like myself) would be absorbing 25% of incoming attacks.

I bet my pvp gear is better than kokorogue or whatevers', and there is no way I can stand there while 3 people are beating on me for 3 minutes. 30 seconds? yes...3 minutes? absolutely not.

*Edit* Kruhl, did your ACT say the fight lasted 3 minutes total? Because if so, I bet it was 3 minutes from the time you engaged the 3v3, not 3 minutes starting when you were fighting just him.

~Slyck

Oshef

30 seconds is entirely too long for ANY solo player to take a beating from 3 people. No tank in the game can stand up to any 3 classes of even conned enemies for 30 seconds without heals and survive.

Once again, clothies are supposed to be HARDER to kill then the tanks.. because they can certainly do a HELLUVA lot more damage then them.

Stop acting like this is giving you a 'chance' of surviving and understand that it's making you the most resiliant archetype out there.

Here is the problem, in one simple, factual sentence:

Cloth wearing sorcerers take pvp damage better then plate wearing 'meat shield' tanks. for 30 seconds.

Do you really not understand what is wrong with this? It's insane for anyone to argue that it isn't overpowered.

Illuminator

You can't automatically assume the second sentence from the first, knowing as we all know that every proc's stacking/refreshing ability is custom decided per proc.

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