Illuminator

Does the rock-paper-scissors concept even benefit gaming? Two people with equal abilities match off, and one person has an automatic handicap Just Because. I used to fucking hate this in RTS's. And why would there be a 50% win rate otherwise, if this is supposed to be determined by skill? Hmm?

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HA HA Fuck you, Roger. And don't vote for Obama.

firamas

in something like starcraft, these R-P-S mechanics were built into the very framework of the game.. but in EQ2 PvP it's not "just because".

PvP was built on top of the original PvE mechanics. i'm pretty sure there was no dev meeting where they sat around and came up with some arbitrary "scouts will generally beat mages, fighters will generally beat scouts, mages will generally beat fighters, and healers arent real people anyway" bullshit balance argument. it just developed naturally from the PvE mechanics transitioning to PvP. and it's in no way an absolute either, skill and gear are still the overriding factors in any fight.

however, from time to time there are mechanics that are introduced to the game that so drastically shift the paradigm of PvP class archetype balance (of which R-P-S is a part) and changes the very texture of 1v1 PvP, that something needs to be said. a set of dispersion gear does this. the detarget and fear procs in their current form (with 20% proc rate) also do this.

massive, game-changing effects that drastically change the nature of a fight need to be closely scrutinized for balance. a 5% reactive fear is a nuisance to your attacker and a powerful PvP tool... now increase that instead to 20% (its current state), and it becomes a balance-rending and possibly unrecoverable nightmare of a control effect for many classes.

Pinski

RTS's are about being able to change your strategy based upon the other person's strategy, to change your Paper into Rock so you can beat the Scissors. That's what makes a good player at an RTS. Because you can change your Paper into a Rock really fast and stomp the crap out of the Scissors. If you can't manage to change your Paper into Rock and get stomped by Scissors every-time, but stomp Rock and push against Paper, then of course you're going to hate the mechanic. But it's there for a good reason.

But in PvP, I'm pretty certain the game isn't balanced on soloing, which is why Predators and Rogues dominate soloing.

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Fooflehag

It isn't. Never has been, never will be. Some people just act outraged, when suddenly their class isn't the overpowered one anymore.

And it'll keep shifting with new combinations of AA, spells, gear etc etc. I can't believe, that it's possible to hit 1 to 1 class balance in this game.

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jeffmalone

if you believed this kruhl you would have destroyed your the stoneskin bracer you got instead of hocking it in freeport 70-79 for days, youre a convenient believer in what youre saying, get over it.

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firamas

that's correct, it's never been balanced around 1v1 (either in PVE or PVP), and it never will be. heroic PVE content and group v group PVP are the fulcrums of the dev team's balancing efforts.

there are, however, certain dynamics introduced that are just massively overpowered in any situation. all we're asking for, as a community, is that the dev team fairly evaluate some of these dynamics now (or ideally before introducing future ones) and see how they REALLY "play out" in PvP...

would halving or quartering the stoneskin chance to proc have made sense, when you're looking at it from "these people are going to wear every piece of this they can find" perspective? same thing for the PvP gear procs... the nature of the proc itself isn't necessarily broken, it's just the massive chance to proc (from a SINGLE piece) that's causing excessive disruption

Dankshasta

When have you done group PvP since RoK? Just curious here, not picking at you Istaril but I havent seen you out for PvP in a long, long time.

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lost

The biggest problem with all of the new RoK gear, is that it doesn't encourage a player to use their skills better. Instead we have stoneskins, reactive stuns, reactive mezzes, reactive stifles, reactive detaunts, etc. The list goes on and on, but in the end, these items have allowed any class to stand toe to toe with another and it turns into who can push their buttons to do more damage than the other can.

The absolute extreme of this is a warlock with stoneskin gear, null mail, and manashield being able to stand up to a scout better than a fighter can. The balance between classes should be because the skills are balanced (i.e. mage teleports, roots, snares etc to keep scouts off of them, and if a scout gets in range they tear them up) instead of items to create an artificial balance. With that mindset, items should provide ways for existing abilities to be more effective, and if an item would be overpowered with any one class wearing it, it is overpowered in general and should not be created.

firamas

gtfo jayn, we're not allowed to make sense around here anymore when discussing inter-archetype dynamics.

i think the real question here is why SHOULDNT the physically weakest archetype be able to take 400-500% more damage than the physically strongest one? hell, i think manashield should be 3:1 and last for 60 seconds, and stoneskin should be an 85% chance to proc. if a clothie can't stand there and absorb 150k worth of damage with a cluster of melee ripping into them, i don't think they'll ever be balanced in PvP!

Dankshasta

Excellent post, only you forgot Overloaded heals, but yeah Jayn hit the nail right on the head. You don;t need to know how to play your class with all these fucking reactive effects.

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