Originally Posted by Pett

Crit and double attack greatly increased the damage output of scouts, not survivability.

Originally Posted by Pett

Even if the scout is in full T8 master crafted, they can do a lot of dps through CA's as well as melee crit on CA's and auto attack. Especially with assassins, who get harder hitting CAs that, by default Hit Bonus, their stealth attacks very rarely miss on mages. The only way those high hits would miss is if the mage had a lucky roll with 2-3% parry adornments on wrist or some AA avoidance. If not for those 2 things, assassins would be guaranteed to kill a mage every time.

Originally Posted by Pett

As for survivability, scouts can now spec for DPS + stamina lines which add fair amount of hp to them. What? Did you forget that little tid bit when you made the broad generalization that every class got 15% more hp? Scouts alone can get more than 12% bonus hp from AA's in addition to the normal level increases and gear upgrades. Now they can pick up a shield, pick up any random pieces of stun, stifle, mez procs, and +parry and defense items and become difficult to kill.

Originally Posted by Pett

But go ahead, retard. Let's hear the stories of you not able to kill a mage as a brigand. Enlighten us with your vast knowledge of PvP combat.

Originally Posted by firamas

who's talking about scout survivability? this has been about scout/melee DPS in short fights. you're way off on your estimates of average pre-RoK and post-RoK crit+DA values too. you're trying to make it seem like there was NO crit gear before T8, which is completely untrue. shit, i was at ~35% crit at the end of T7, and now i sit at 37% in full fabled gear. i lost some, and i gained some. (and btw i'll lose a lot more when i need to put on my 5-set VP bonus, at least on raids.) could i mix up a few gear choices for a couple more points? yeah, but it's not worth it overall. same thing with DA... there's a few points here and a few points there, but your "average mix" of gear is not going to give you 30% DA or something insane like that. (in fact, i dont think thats possible even with full choice of any raid gear, let alone the legendary that most PvPers are running around in). if you want to cry nerf, ask for the trooper scale boots to be nerfed to a straight 2% DA or something reasonable (although they come from a proc, which will not be up for the first part of any PvP fight, which is the part that we're talking about here anyway).

8-12% more crit and 8-10% more DA is a very realistic estimate of how much most people have gained since T7, if they're in the best of the T8 legendary. sit down and actually look at the goddamn legendary gear selection and start adding up the +1's and +2's on it and tell me if i'm way off. that crit equates to ~4% more overall DPS, and the DA (since CA's make up a large chunk of scout dmg) is also about 4% more overall DPS. it's an increase, but did you think that classes were somehow supposed to drop in power as they add new tiers? everyone has improved across the board.




scout and fighter CA's (not just assassin, all melee CA's) have always had a very high to-hit rate. this isn't specific to assassins, and it's nothing new.




so these AA lines and adornments weren't available before RoK? huh? again, nothing has changed here as far as basic dynamics. you do realize that many scouts (rogues/preds) have been testing the waters with a defensive-spec route for quite awhile now (long before RoK)?




this is not a mage vs scout discussion (unless you're specifically turning it into one now). it was a discussion on pre- and post- T8 balance due to autoattack dmg. you are the one introducing grossly inflated numbers and quasi-related variables into the conversation, in a desperate attempt to scramble yourself up a coherent point. i don't need to PvP 8 hours a day to understand basic math and class dynamics... two things which you either cannot or will not make an honest attempt to grasp.

Originally Posted by firamas

just because i dont pvp a couple hours a day doesn't mean i don't do it at all. i am disgruntled with much of the dynamics of T8 PvP, but i still occasionally venture out (either solo or in small groups).

i do not trust the anecdotal "evidence" presented by angry people who can't think logically through an issue. you saying that you're seeing max hits a full 4x harder in T8 than in T7, when the max dmg on the hardest hitting weapons only increased by 50% (~300 to 450), is a prime example of this. forget DR, forget anything else related to scout or mage survivability or DPS, just tell me how that in itself is mathematically possible?

now do you see what i'm trying to say in these threads? i want to talk about PvP balance issues in a forum where we can get some valid, engaging discussion going, but that's not possible when people jump into the conversation with a lot of bias and emotion and only a little bit of logic. that's part of the reason why devs are so slow to make changes... they don't "fix" shit based on popular opinion, they analyze the code and the real application of those numbers in the virtual world and make a decision on what needs to be fixed.

Originally Posted by firamas

less QQ more pewpew, jackass.