Dzen

Slayn nailed it above. If raiding was just as viable on faction side and there was also the benefit of pvp rewards, there would be no exile guilds. The fact that the most successful raiding guilds decide to exile, by default, means there must be a significant advantage or they wouldn't do it.

The excuse that it gives more PVP is BS. When you raid 6-7 nights a week you are obviously centering your game around the benefits that you gain from raiding and not PVP. Every person from my guild that has exiled has stated raiding reasons for it: they are tired of raiding hard-mode.

The guild that keeps being brought up is Europa and how well they did in T7. How can that be mentioned without also mentioning that they exiled because they got tired of how hard-mode faction raiding is. The most successful faction raid guild from last tier voted #2 on this poll by exiling.

However its is a compounded problem. Exile guilds prey off of the committed raiders that are in faction guilds to fill their ranks. So I wouldn't say that faction guilds are too "stupid" to get it done, as the poll implies, it is more that a lot of people that are on pvp servers that are committed to raiding end up eventually exiling because faction guilds are harder and have less other committed raiders. If exile guilds didn't exist, the retention of committed raiders would be much higher and thus faction guilds would progress easier with those players. I would say that faction guilds have less committed players, not that they are stupid.

The reason faction raiding is so much harder is because of how the buff and debuff system works. In EQ1 there were 3 debuffs that had to land on a mob to be effective, and if those debuffs didn't land you were pretty much screwed. In EQ2 every class has debuffs and the cumulative effect of those debuffs increases the survivability and DPS of the raid. When classes are missing for those debuffs, both the survivability and the dps of the raid suffers. When a single non-warded double attack can one-shot a tank and scripts are designed to burn through specific parts of them, having those missing debuffs becomes very important.

I'm fairly certain with EoF gear, instance gear, and T1/T2 gear that most of the raiders in my guild are fairly consistent to where exile guilds were gear-wise at the beginning of this expansion (minus contested gear). The reason we do about 2/3 the dps of a blubie/exie guild isn't because we can't figure out what order to push buttons, it is because a partially debuffed mob takes a LOT longer to kill.

However. this all said, I am positive that within a months time there will be at least 1 FP and Q guild that will progress into T3. That is the real issue I have right now. T3 is broke. No matter how good faction guilds do, we won't be getting epic weapons until T3 is fixed.

So maybe a 3rd option should be added to the poll that says: faction guilds might get it done if SoE didn't bork Leviathan.

Hael

LOL, how do you know? Did you even try the mob before LU42 and have you tried it after?

Or are you going on what others are posting? B/C if thats the case, read again, it is definitely killable, just have to follow a tough script now. It might be a little bugged but doable according a few guilds killing him since LU42.

We haven't tried yet, but can't wait to see the changes b/c prior to this it was a bore.

Taear

Although I feel that having the perfect classes might not make as much difference as some people think it does certainly up the speed of a raid.
We have to learn every single encounter over, because so many of the guides and hints are written with you having every single class. When a guide starts with "Have your templar cast sanctuary", you know it's going to be a long learning curve for this fight.

Ratface

It's certainly easier with all classes, but not incredibly harder with only one factions classes as some people make it out to seem.

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Hael

Do those factioned aoe blockers not exist/work any more from city merchants?

Avaela

There's your fucking problem right there, learn the fucking encounter yourself instead of reading how to do it dumbass.

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Ratface

Maybe they don't work for everyone else.

I'm definitely going with option #1 for why many guilds haven't killed Doomcoil.

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Dzen

The guilds that have cleared VP haven't beat Leviathan yet. That certainly means there is nothing wrong with the encounter.

You can't possibly argue that there isn't something seriously fucked up that they introduced the new Leviathan right when faction guilds are on the verge of hitting T3 and epics came out. You guys got to kill easy-mode version of Leviathan and now you'll probably argue how "killable" he is even though YOU can't kill him and you don't need to since you are already in VP.

Darkhain

Yes it's possible, but harder.
But what about Avatars and other contested? like in T7, ie Europa couldn't kill Mayong or any avatars .

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Hael

Read again:

1. I said we haven't tried Leviathan since the update for epic purposes.
2. Several guilds have killed him on blue servers as of yesterday, they just had to relearn the encounter as it is more difficult now with a script.

I am sure they changed him because they knew faction guild on pvp servers were on the verge of getting to him and wanted to fuck you!

We do need to kill him for epics and we will kill him. It make take a day or two of trying, but we'll get it.

You are dumb. Speaking "facts" on things you have no experience with.