Raiding in FP and Qeynos - Page 9

firamas · 02-22-2008, 01:29 PM

Fact 1: Endgame raiding is slightly easier with all 24 classes available.
Fact 2: Endgame raiding is still very possible with 8 of the classes not available.
Fact 3: Endgame raiding success is not guaranteed just because all 24 classes are available.

Bottom Line: Endgame raiding is impossible, either cityside or exile, without the right mix of leadership, player skill, dedication, creativity, and drive. There are plenty of raid guilds on PVE servers that can't get into VP that prove this point exquisitely.

Paikis · 03-03-2008, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peldaar

It really showed that having the consistant raid force is still going to make it very painful to progress just because you don't have all the class abilities that the encounters are made for. Yes a city guild can and will complete most if not all the zones eventually but the difference that we have seen since exiling has been incredible to me. Mobs we couldn't touch or come close to as GW we killed in our first attempt as exile. The same mobs we barely did 30k dps on we broke 52k dps. With 42 unique accounts in VA and all the classes available it has made raiding alot more fun to me and I believe everyone else that exiled with us.

Just thought you all might want to have a read.

Original post is at the bottom of this page.

Demron · 03-03-2008, 05:09 AM

Paikis I'll quote it for them. Become, or any of these guys havn't done RoK period with only city classes, we know Grey Wolves have. These old Naggy exiles have been exiled for so long, they don't know how it is outside of what exiles can do. Grey Wolves saw both sides of the fence for RoK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peldaar

Every other guild that exiled did it for the PvP... at least as best as my bad memory holds. They all failed in the end I think because of that. They probably thought being in exile would give them non stop targets and it doesn't. Yes there is alot more but you have the same issues that you do in a city. People evac, run or stay immune most of the time.

In Qeynos we were a raiding guild. We had alot of successful raids as a city guild but EoF definitely showed how tough it is on a city only raid guild. The biggest issue is keeping a consistant raid force and not having to try to reequip everyone, train them, etc. Thats what we experienced the most. We had over 100 unique accounts in GW but on any given day would only have a handful of extras. This meant we rotated alot of people so it was making our progression very slow. Most people couldn't make it to raids consistantly no matter what we tried. We had a good core group but that just isn't enough. You need a good raid all around especially in a city raid.

Doing raids in RoK as Qeynos really showed the lack of character abilities that these encounters are designed for. It really showed that having the consistant raid force is still going to make it very painful to progress just because you don't have all the class abilities that the encounters are made for. Yes a city guild can and will complete most if not all the zones eventually but the difference that we have seen since exiling has been incredible to me. Mobs we couldn't touch or come close to as GW we killed in our first attempt as exile. The same mobs we barely did 30k dps on we broke 52k dps. With 42 unique accounts in VA and all the classes available it has made raiding alot more fun to me and I believe everyone else that exiled with us.

After what we have experienced here so far I'd never go back to a city unless they opened all classes to the cities. I play the game for the end game but like the added bonus of PvP so I don't really care to go to a blue server. Being in exile is perfect for what I like out of the game.

Rottk . Sloopy · 03-11-2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

Fact 1: Endgame raiding is slightly easier with all 24 classes available.
Fact 2: Endgame raiding is still very possible with 8 of the classes not available.
Fact 3: Endgame raiding success is not guaranteed just because all 24 classes are available.

Bottom Line: Endgame raiding is impossible, either cityside or exile, without the right mix of leadership, player skill, dedication, creativity, and drive. There are plenty of raid guilds on PVE servers that can't get into VP that prove this point exquisitely.

Pretty much answer's all raiding flames on PvP servers. Although, I would add 'time' to that list. Alot of players on the fraction sides just dont have the time to play as much as others. I for one cant log in every day and on the days I do log in, half of those days I can only play for mabye 2 hours or less. I for one can say that if I had the time available to me, I would be willing to to raid up to 7 days a week.

Rottk . Sloopy

Nimrod · 03-14-2008, 12:51 PM

I would say that it is a mix of both as well. I may be that the serious, good raiders just get tired of bangiung thier heads on the same mob over and over and not beating it, leading them to form Exile groups knowing this is the answer.

I wait with baited breath for the day when a Frep and Q guild even GET TO VP, but don't expect me to hold that breath becuase I firmly beleive it ain't going to happen.

Fiz · 03-14-2008, 01:07 PM

I'm not sure all guild that exiled that did it for pvp failed. We were exile for a year, longest active exile guild (exiled just after Havoc) pvp'd our asses off, had a blast, and by accident server firsted most raid encounters too when we were there...but that was all secondary. Now the game has gone into decline, alot of us in war beta...but when we do play we are still exile, pvp without any gear, and wouldn't have it any other way.

Phineus · 03-15-2008, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paikis

Just thought you all might want to have a read.

Original post is at the bottom of this page.

I spoke to peldaar just today and he said he left all his weaksauce in qeynos and picked up quite a few very skilled players. The guild that raided in qeynos and the guild that now raids in exile are not the same bird. Much like guilds such as kraken and onyx probably have about 6-10 of their original members. I told GW a long time ago if they exiled and ditched the weaksauce they would do quite well.

Paikis · 03-15-2008, 08:19 AM

Too much weaksauce IMO. I honestly believe thats one of the two things that are holding back the Freeport Alliance on Venekor. The only other thing is that I WTB 2 templar and 3 Illusionists.

You know the whole raid is going to shit when you have bruisers throwing knives at the spider queen when there's a sac sitting right next to them.

EDIT to add: When you say skilled players I hear 'players with gear'. The difference between so-called shit players and the ubah-leet hardcore raiders is very often nothing more than the raiders have better gear. On a scale of 0-100, 0 being total dumbarse who can't even kill the rats in big bend, 100 being ubah leet. I'd say that actual 'skill' A.K.A casting order, knowing what to do when to maximise DPS, knowing the encounter etc. Probably stops at around 40. After that its pretty much about gear.

Borias · 03-15-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paikis

Too much weaksauce IMO. I honestly believe thats one of the two things that are holding back the Freeport Alliance on Venekor. The only other thing is that I WTB 2 templar and 3 Illusionists.

3 Illusionists would be fucking insane. We can't even pull that off except on rare occasions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paikis

EDIT to add: When you say skilled players I hear 'players with gear'. The difference between so-called shit players and the ubah-leet hardcore raiders is very often nothing more than the raiders have better gear. On a scale of 0-100, 0 being total dumbarse who can't even kill the rats in big bend, 100 being ubah leet. I'd say that actual 'skill' A.K.A casting order, knowing what to do when to maximise DPS, knowing the encounter etc. Probably stops at around 40. After that its pretty much about gear.

I have to disagree with you here bud, sorry. There's a reason 2 of our 3 dirges parse about the same (2400-3400 depending) and one parses 1300-2000. And it sure as shit isn't gear. When I can outparse the dirge with the zerker, illu and inquis from the MT group, theres a lot of retardation going on.

Paikis · 03-15-2008, 09:24 AM

Ive noticed my DPS go from 1400 up to 2-2.4k in T8... i am still using the same cast order, with the same AA setup. Its all the gear mate.

EDIT: Being retarded WILL fuck your parse, but skill will also only get you so far. The three Illies was to ensure that we would ahve atleast one for every raid