avoidance vs. mitigation

T-Assassin · 04-02-2008, 08:38 PM

i thought i had seen a thread on this topic, but could not find what i was looking for using "search".

was doing some crafting last couple days and reading 1-9 and 10-19 chat (most of it is pure bullshit and bitching) but, i was trying to follow a discussion regarding avoidance vs. mitigation. (most of the discussion was how brigand is OP, followed by more bitching than discussion)

all i kept seeing was avoidance is pure crap, and mitigation is the way to go, but no one could back up their arguement with facts or even logical reasoning as to why this was the case.

i know the differences between the two, but i'm fairly new to EQ PvP, and don't know how those relate to PvP, not PvE.

so, the question is, is avoidance crap? and is mitigation a better way to go, over avoidance?

i rolled an assassin for something new, but an really missing the fun of my bruiser. tried inquisitor, i'm just not a healer at heart.

so, i'll prolly roll a bruiser, regardless of what the answers i recieve are. i'm a firm believer that if your a good player and know ur class, you'll be successful more often than not.

but, i'm just curious as to why people would say avoidance sucks and mitigation is the way to go.

Oshef · 04-02-2008, 09:50 PM

Avoidance and mit are pretty even in PvP. Different strengths against different classes. If you're looking to solo - Brawler is one of the best classes for it.

Plate tanks of all kind are better for group pvp tanks, imo. Nothing to do with avoidance -vs- mit but other group benefits. Generally zerks, guards, pali's, and sk's just hold better PvP aggro than brawlers. Really isn't much of an argument against it.

T-Assassin · 04-02-2008, 10:55 PM

cool...

thanx for the reply. i figured i would take it for what it was worth and where i had heard it, amongst a bunch of people arguing why WoW is better than EQ2 and other bullshit.

i was gonna roll a bruiser regardless, just wanted to clarify since even in my noobness i see things and major differences from PvE to PvP.

can't believe i stayed in the PvE realm for so long!!

Demron · 04-03-2008, 04:47 AM

There are several combat arts, (not sure how many) that always hit. Some are high damaging combat arts. Because of this mitigation is more valuable to most classes, however ironically Bruisers and Monks have a much better avoidance check than other classes, even scouts with the same avoidance percentage.

At one point in tier 7, I havn't done this for tier 8 yet, I logged 100 fights and viewed the information. Out of the 100 fights I rarely had a combat art miss me, via avoidance. I think it was like 1 in 25 that one would miss.

Because of this I've tried to focus more on mitigation than avoidance.

lost · 04-03-2008, 08:19 AM

The thing is, for all fighters except brawlers, parry is only a frontal check, and most of the time, people fighting you are going to be scouts that are attempting to get their positional attacks off on you. Also block is frontal only, so in pvp, even though my guardian's avoidance is listed at 70%, for the most part I only avoid about 25% of melee attacks in a given fight.

That said, realistically, because of diminishing returns on mitigation, if you are in t8 and have something like the heroic set of gear for your archtype as a baseline, the best upgrades for small group/solo pvp are all going to be dps related because you can probably increase your dps by 50% or more with gear selection and survivability only by a little bit. If you are tanking for a group or raid, I would say then obviously go for more survivability and hope your healers can keep you up while you taunt your ass off.

Tiermes · 04-03-2008, 05:43 PM

I have almost a 95-% hit rate against a bruiser in offensive (me being in offensive too). And their miti is twice as low as of a plate tank save for some best-geared characters. But their dps in pvp is also nothing to be kidding about

Zacii · 04-03-2008, 08:29 PM

Brawlersare the only class I have a tough time with, them and zerkers.

firamas · 04-04-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lost

The thing is, for all fighters except brawlers, parry is only a frontal check, and most of the time, people fighting you are going to be scouts that are attempting to get their positional attacks off on you. Also block is frontal only, so in pvp, even though my guardian's avoidance is listed at 70%, for the most part I only avoid about 25% of melee attacks in a given fight.

That said, realistically, because of diminishing returns on mitigation, if you are in t8 and have something like the heroic set of gear for your archtype as a baseline, the best upgrades for small group/solo pvp are all going to be dps related because you can probably increase your dps by 50% or more with gear selection and survivability only by a little bit. If you are tanking for a group or raid, I would say then obviously go for more survivability and hope your healers can keep you up while you taunt your ass off.

the man speaks the truth.

think about it this way: who do you need avoidance against the most? high DPS fighter/scout classes. what do those classes get? an offensive stance. that single ability alone will almost completely negate most effective avoidance. it's useless against mages, only very marginally useful against melee-specced priests, and like Jayn just stated, you're going to be caught in a circle-strafing situation with any melee based class and losing most of your avoidance to that anyway.

mitigation and a good healer setup is always the most effective way to not get killed as fast in pvp (and dont forget magical mitigation either!). concentrate on DPS and if you can slide in a few decent reactive effects on your gear, good.