Proposal: Dramatic tweak to PvP Writ update mechanics

firamas · 05-01-2008, 12:48 PM

If the following changes were made then many of the problems with current PvP mechanics/exploitative behavior would likely be fixed:

1) Remove the ability to get writ updates while in a raid. Absolutely no fucking way.
2) Dramatically reduce the chance of a kill giving a writ update (down to 25%) if there is another allied, but un-raided, group on the hate list of whoever you just killed.
3) Moderately reduce the chance of a kill giving a writ update (down to 75%) if you are solo.

Voila! No incentive to sit in an x4-x10 at the docks, raid zerg, and stir up a lagfest like a bunch of incompetent douchebags. Almost no incentive to stay un-raided but follow around allied groups in a "pseudo raid". Slightly decreased incentive to solo. The ruleset drives everything towards the holy grail of PvP: group v group fights. I'm surprised this hasn't been tweaked like this already.

The T8 PvP situation on Nagafen right now is broken. It's always been broken through T7 and T8, and developer tweaks to mechanics have not fixed it. Throughout this entire mess they have failed to conduct the necessary "What-if?" test scenarios on a large enough scale to predict how a huge playerbase will react to mechanics changes. We're closer now than ever, but we need these critical tweaks to discourage the abusive behavior that has arisen across both city factions.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

p.s. I have no hope for raid v raid PvP ever being fun. There are fundamental combat coding issues that cause the massive lag, and that ruins the entire experience. We need to be driven towards a 6v6 ruleset. If they can ever revamp the core coding to remove the horrendous lag that makes the game unplayable in RvR PvP, then they start structuring the ruleset around that again. The devs are quite frankly not in touch with the way servers like Nagafen work. There is such great potential for an enjoyable PvP experience, but it's squandered.

Pett · 05-01-2008, 01:03 PM

Anything would make it better.

KoS PvP -- Everybody loved to PvP and the game could handle the load.

EoF PvP -- One enemy had the chance to drop tokens. If allies were around there was a high chance of leeching and kill stealing tokens, so people attempted to avoid stepping on each others' toes and PvP combat favored smaller fights.

RoK PvP -- Game can't handle fights larger than 30 people. Leechers and Kill Stealers all get updates for their writs, so people don't have to avoid each other, thus creating the masses that surround the writ givers.

firamas · 05-01-2008, 01:21 PM

I just want to be able to run around ROK during prime time hours and know that I have an extremely good chance of seeing 6-8 separate enemy groups roaming around any particular zone, looking for a good fight, and that those groups have little or no incentive to do abusive shit like follow eachother around just outside of track range and jump in to turn a 6v6 into a 6v12. Shit, I'd be happy if they even found a way to punish that kind of behavior.

Odinn · 05-01-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

If the following changes were made then many of the problems with current PvP mechanics/exploitative behavior would likely be fixed:

1) Remove the ability to get writ updates while in a raid. Absolutely no fucking way.
2) Dramatically reduce the chance of a kill giving a writ update (down to 25%) if there is another allied, but un-raided, group on the hate list of whoever you just killed.
3) Moderately reduce the chance of a kill giving a writ update (down to 75%) if you are solo.

1. Agree. People have been asking for raids not to update writs since they went live.
2. Don't agree
3. Don't agree - wait til you have a fighter you can't find...

Just taking the raid giving updates part out, that would fix 90% of it.

Milambers · 05-01-2008, 02:03 PM

I pretty much only solo PvP. I have one 300 piece of crap, and about 120 tokens. I've seen people that raid PvP'd for a week and just from that got 3-7 pieces of gear overall.

What should have happened is this: There should have been a rollback on the writ updates.

Now that raid PvP has died down, the cost of PvP should be dropped by around 100-150 tokens depending on the pieces.

firamas · 05-01-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odinn

1. Agree. People have been asking for raids not to update writs since they went live.
2. Don't agree
3. Don't agree - wait til you have a fighter you can't find...

Just taking the raid giving updates part out, that would fix 90% of it.

You can't just disable updates while in a raid... if you do that, what do you think is going to happen to the x4+x3 that's sitting on the dregs docks? They're just going to split the groups up and still swarm everything. You don't lose a whole lot by having an x4 run around in a cluster of 4 unlinked groups (or an x2 running around unlinked, same deal). That's why you have to have mechanics hardwired into the ruleset to discourage players from that kind of abusive behavior. Hence my #2.

As for the #3, that was just a suggestion to push from the other end... you push people away from raiding, and you push people away from soloing, and you end up with the magical Group vs Group result that the majority of players wants. This game was balanced around Group v Group PvP, which is why certain classes (most scouts, some mages) or certain items (reactive control effects) seem so incredibly powerful in 1v1 situations. I don't consider it a requirement to discourage people from soloing, but a minor "push" (like slightly decreasing the chance of a writ update) would be a nice help. I play perhaps one of the most overpowered solo classes in PvP, and I support this change. =)

Look, I just want this game to be successful. If AOC/WAR end up not being these legendary havens of PvP awesomeness that some people claim them to be, then we're left without ANY other serious MMO to look forward to. And EQ2 is not a bad game. The overall gaming experience is probably the most mature/polished on the market right now. There are a few interface and low level coding tweaks that need to be looked at (some graphics/lag issues), but they aren't ruining the big picture. EQ2 PvP has the potential to be a really, really cool experience for everyone involved, but the developers have to have a handle on what's really going on and make ruleset changes to push that in the right direction.

Kradun · 05-01-2008, 02:43 PM

I don't like the idea of throwing probability into the equation. It makes it an "inconsistent" solution.

Vernon · 05-01-2008, 02:49 PM

I quit because in the day time Euro time there was no one to fight, you could run around the zones for half an hour without finding anyone it got tedious fast.

firamas · 05-01-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kradun

I don't like the idea of throwing probability into the equation. It makes it an "inconsistent" solution.

It was a choice between either completely removing the ability to update a writ if someone outside your group was on that person's hate list, or giving it a small chance still, so you couldn't completely "grief" allies by following them around and purposely engaging their PvP targets to prevent anyone from getting writs done. Either way, if you ONLY remove the ability to get them while in raids, the raids are simply going to disband and stay huddled, and then we still have the same shitty problem and nothing was solved.

The probability chance while soloing... I don't really care either way on that. It has good and bad effects. Overall I think it'd be good (assuming it was suitably high like 75-80% still), but /shrug.

Oshef · 05-01-2008, 04:12 PM

What if:

Brigand A: Follows around Group A - or Warlock A follows around Group A.

Group A then becomes 75% less likely to get an update.

Plus I'm not at all a coder, but I don't think these changed would be easy to make, and lord knows they won't actually spend TIME on PvP!