Why are Coercers so broken in PvP?

Dankshasta · 07-13-2009, 01:08 PM

Coercers are broke in PvP.

Mez, debuffs, death, that's pretty gay, and dont tell me to get a fucking vessel, that is a shitty solution to some broken PvP mechanics.

This is not a whine, becuz they should also be fixed for the Coercers, i mean how fun can PvP be when it's just MEZ-DEBUFFS-KILL. We just sit there looking at our screen while 5-7 arcanes are put on us, and then immediately die. The coercer on the other side is just pressing a couple keys, not moving, no need to deaggro, if the mez desnt get resisted he doesnt have to do anything but press teh debuffs, and finally a nuke. it's kinda silly. Most other classes at least need to think about defense, kiting, charging into mellee range, i mean something. Coercefr PvP these days is just retarded, teh mez sticks and they dont have thier vessel up and, well you get it.

What are some ways this could be improved?

firamas · 07-13-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dankshasta

What are some ways this could be improved?

Don't play on a red server.

Serious answer: Don't complain about 1v1 PvP when the dynamics are designed and balanced around 6v6 group combat.

Kin Meds tbh · 07-13-2009, 01:22 PM

Most the guys who PvP (especially on the Gaynose side) are in at least 2 PvP pieces and have resists up the yazoo. Very rarely goes down like that against them, assuming they didn't bring a grey mob with them.

Yeah it's certain death if all goes their way, but it's certain death for them if it doesn't, and a damn sight quicker.

Kin Meds tbh · 07-13-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

Don't play on a red server.

Serious answer: Don't complain about 1v1 PvP when the dynamics are designed and balanced around 6v6 group combat.

...where everything a coercer casts is cured in seconds.

Dankshasta · 07-13-2009, 01:27 PM

i appreciate your response Meds, although I didnt see a solution. As for Become /Fireanus , he's an idiot. i mean he still reads the PvP forums just to remind us all how shitty it is?!? Kinda wierd, no?

firamas · 07-13-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dankshasta

i appreciate your response Meds, although I didnt see a solution. As for Become /Fireanus , he's an idiot. i mean he still reads the PvP forums just to remind us all how shitty it is?!? Kinda wierd, no?

"How shitty it is?" WTF?

I think 6v6 PvP in EQ2 is great. I think the concept of PvP in general is great (I enjoyed WAR and WoW PvP). I've expressed this opinion plenty of times in these forums.

The problem with EQ2 is that the holy grail of two balanced groups locking horns in some hot PvP action is not the norm. It's 1v1 random encounters, small roaming gank groups, greys charming MT's on contesteds, or the lame skill-less hackfest of laggy raid vs raid PvP (upgraded in status last year to the full out retardation of token farming zergfests).

WoW battlegrounds and WAR scenarios do it right... they limit the participation to small group fights (in WAR... sometimes more in WoW, but it's still not laggy like EQ2) and there are usually actual objectives to attain within the scenario. Give me cross server instanced PvP scenarios in EQ2 that mirror what WAR did, and I'll be all over that shit. Until then, EQ2 PvP is fundamentally flawed as it stands now. There is little incentive to do anything that is tactically engaging... you either gank or you raidfuck eachother for token farms. It's miserable. You almost have to set up group v group duels somewhere to make it more fun than stressful. Everything else is just mutual masturbation (with no release).

p.s. Dank, you have always been, and remain, a human wasteland. I hope you and your unfortunate spawn vanish from our gene pool in some terrible accident.

Actually, that's pretty mean, I didn't mean to disparage your kid that way. I apologize. IIRC they're still pretty young, you probably haven't yet corrupted them with your ignorance enough to drive them past the point of no return.

You're still invited to die in a fucking fire though.

patrck17 · 07-13-2009, 02:32 PM

Copying this post from the official forums cause it didn't get flamed.

Not going to try to conclude if mez should be taken out or not. Both sides have reasonable arguements. The damage you can stack up on somebody before they are capable of doing anything is significant, but alternatively there are ways around this and coercers are pretty much paper if you can get around the cc. I just wanted to share some interesting observations about coercers in general, both fighting against and as a coercer.

Firstly it is very clever the way coercers orient themselves on this issue. Whenever you see a post or discuss in gamechat about how mezz is overpowered you get a huge backlash from players (mostly coercers) saying there are tons of ways to counter it (vessel, bristlebane, brawlers, etc) qq more, l2p and so on. The entire issue is dismissed by stating that by not using these abilities you are a scrub who can't play, which makes sense I guess, since those abilities do work. However at the same time, when coercers start talking about how pro they are and get confronted with 1v1s, they will outright reject any fights against brawlers of similar toon quality, and say no godspells and no using vessel. What is even funnier is how they actually refer to these skills. Its often "I wont fight brawlers they are op/easymode", or "you could only kill me if you godspell", or "he had to use his vessel to beat me/the vessel is equiv to godspelling". I don't know how many times I've been hailed by a coercer to 1v1, which I agree to, we go out first thing I do is pop my vessel of course cause I am not an idiot, then they run back to immunity only to say they won't fight me while im vesseled cause its cheap. So on one side they will criticize people for not using these tactics against them, going as far as to call them scrubs and newbs, but on the other side outright reject the same tactics as a fair method to fight them, also calling them scrubs and newbs for having to use them. Truely impressive.

Don't get the wrong idea though I enjoy pvping on coercer as much as the next guy. I think frogleg is right when he says that if a coercer is stacking you up with stuff before mezz breaks that their gear is pretty terrible, because this is the case with my alt coercer. Not ton of aa, not a whole lot of great gear, but by using this tactic I can kill people who have me way outgeared, but without the ability to mez them I would get smoked in seconds. If they weren't such scrubs though they would l2p and break my mezz, then I could tell them they were only able to kill me cause the had to use a godspell against a scrub geared toon.

Coercer is an all around ftw class. Even when you lose you really win.

Flame on!

Pudaan · 07-13-2009, 02:48 PM

Coercers are good but they are like many 1v1 fights in this game, if you let them get the jump on you, you are going to die. If you see a coecer coming pull a mob on yourself if there is one around to break his mez. This usually requires track and a knowledge of the names and classes of active pvpers on your server.

If you are able to stun the coercer with cheap shot and spam your detargets and try to get your dots on before you get mezzed, that way the enchanter will probably be a little rushed because his HP is ticking down (even if its a little) and might screw up on the stacks. You have to use a stun pot if you want to win and ALWAYS keep cure pots on you, profit is glorious for this because you can click to cure.

Dont complain if you are dying when you have shit gear because that is going to happen and you just need to take the death.

Line of sight is a big advantage, know what coercer debuffs look like and what they do so you know what to cure. If you get lock detargetted you can cure that if you arent dead already.

My opinions might be a little bias because I am a ranger and enchanters are pretty easy as long as I have a pot up. Some classes just are not designed to kill specific classes 1v1. It sucks but you just have to get used to it, you know who the good players are and who the shitty FOTM ones are, dont get pissed.

This advice can pretty much be used for any 1v1 in the game though. Figure out why you died and revise your strategy.

Number one piece of advice is to never listen to firamas, just scroll past his essays of crap.

Dankshasta · 07-13-2009, 03:11 PM

Yeah actually I might be crying over nothing, i guess if I pay attention to my track (which they don't have) and use my items, consumables, and surroundings alittle better then that evens it out, and then some. I just hate counting on some of that shit for PvP. Also my resists, gear and HP are seriously fucked (9.4k health) so let me just think about this alittle more. Couple good posts in here.

Dudo · 07-13-2009, 03:20 PM

ur a troub? you can basically do the same thing