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Old 07-18-2008, 12:47 PM  
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Default Ranger Math

I know there are 2 or 3 other threads on this, but this is a bit of a more involved question:

Does a formula exist which accounts for ALL stats on a piece of equipment (STR, RDA, INT, RC, +CA) that will determine which piece is better than another?

For example: RangerJoe has 2 pieces of gear, one with 25 STR, 25 INT, 45 +CA and the other with 15 STR, 1 attack speed, 1 RC.

Which is better mathematically, assuming that no stat or substat has capped or reached the point of diminishing returns? I assume RAA damage spread factors in here too.

Is it just too complicated and should I wing it (gut says the first one)?

I also realize AA spec figures in, but assume a typical ranger (AGI, INT, Poisoning, Double Attack)

Thanks for whatever guidance anyone can provide.
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:40 PM  
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Default Re: Ranger Math

um ... didnt know there was a math associated with it...

I could care less about what i can do solo b/c my groups vary so much ... i would suggest throwing item a,b,c,d, &e that have questionable value in a bag and when a group set up has u sitting on 750str...throw on Item X or if ur crit/DA/haste is low equip items X/Y/ or Z

personally i go in order of how hard it is to buff something ... R Crit/DA on top then str and Atk speed

PS- are there 2 items in specific ur talking about? i'm sure if u posted what it is ur deciding on ... people will force feed u their 2cp
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:16 PM  
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Default Re: Ranger Math

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Originally Posted by TheRuin3r View Post
PS- are there 2 items in specific ur talking about? i'm sure if u posted what it is ur deciding on ... people will force feed u their 2cp

there were 2 items that spurned the thought process, both of which have been replaces already. But the thought grew into a bigger picture kind of thing.

For instance, the value of 1 crit can be determined easily, as can the value of 1 RDA. A bit more complicated is the value of haste and +dps.

I suppose the questions is how much STR equates to 1 point addition to damage range (if its even that simple) and how much INT equals 1 point more damage to Caustic Poison. From there, its just figuring out the math based on weapon damage and crit rate.

Im probably overthinking things. Wouldnt be the first time.
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:39 AM  
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Default Re: Ranger Math

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Originally Posted by Akeca View Post
there were 2 items that spurned the thought process, both of which have been replaces already. But the thought grew into a bigger picture kind of thing.

For instance, the value of 1 crit can be determined easily, as can the value of 1 RDA. A bit more complicated is the value of haste and +dps.

I suppose the questions is how much STR equates to 1 point addition to damage range (if its even that simple) and how much INT equals 1 point more damage to Caustic Poison. From there, its just figuring out the math based on weapon damage and crit rate.

Im probably overthinking things. Wouldnt be the first time.
Actually, the value of haste and dps is fairly easy, the variables here are how much AA vs. CA/Proc damage is done by the particular player. Some really smart cats posted the mechanics of it on the official boards and i'm too lazy find and link it. But i have built a spreadsheet for my own usage so i'll take the equations from there.

AA Damage is modified as such (and we'll assume based damage = 1.0)
AA Damage = 1.0 x (1+Haste%) x (1+DPS%) x (1+RDA%) x [Crit Mod% x (1+Crit%)]
Crit Mod% is a nasty equation but let is suffice to say that with fabled epic in decent raid setup the value is ~65%, I just got my mythical so haven't gotten exact number on it yet but should increase to around 68 to 70% methinks (it is based upon max/min damage ratios).
What you want to do is increase you lowest value. I'll show you why. Let's assume in a raid you are running 100% haste, 100% dps, 25% RDA, and 50% ranged crit (just pulled from a hat kids, don't get all omg noob wtf gear are you wearing).

So, AA damage is 1.0 x (1+1) x (1+1) x (1+.25) x [.65x(1+.5) = 4.875 or 487.5% higher than base AA damage.

Now you have a gear choice which can increase dps by 1% or RDA by 1%.
The DPS mod increase item would give 1.0 x (1+1) x (1+1.01) x (1+.25) + [.65x(1+.5) = 4.899 or 489.9% Your net increase would be 489.9 - 487.5 = 2.4% increase in AA damage.
The Ranged DA item would give 1.0 x (1+1) x (1+1) x (1+.26) x [.65x(1+.5)] = 4.914 or 491.4% Your net increase now is 491.4 - 487.5 = 3.9% increase in AA damage.
This works across the board with the exception of the ranged crit stat which has a ranged crit modifier attached (the ~65% value).

So you can tell based on your individual damage numbers (where your damage comes from, 50% AA, 20% CA, etc) how much damage increase a particular piece of gear will add. In the above example, if a ranger did 50% of his damage from AA's, then the 1% RDA item would net him a total increase of: .5 x 3.9% = 1.95% increase in DPS.

If you want to know about with items with Crit on it, you will need to know the amount of DPS you're doing with each type of crit CA (20% from ranged CA's, 10% from melee CA's, etc). Crit values increase CA damageby a factor of 1.3 or 130%. So you're change in CA damage is simply: increase/decrease in crit% x 130%, 1% crit = 1.3% increase in CA damage. For a combined effect of crit, the AA equation will work to find the difference in AA damage but you will also need to note the increase in CA damage. Numerically, increase in DPS = (ΔAA damage% x %total damage from AA) + (ΔCA damage% x % total damage from CA type). Note: you will have to calculate melee and ranged crit values seperately since, of course, they crit based on different variables.

Then there's +CA damage, what you do here is figure out for yourselves becuase i'm tired of typing.

Now, the moral of the story is, after reading the intense amount of word and number vomit i have just spewed forth, that the answer to the original querry is a very, very, VERY resounding NO!!! There is not simple or even moderately difficult equation for this. And a piece of gear will have a different effect on the player given his/her given style. As said before, i've got a spreadsheet which shows based upon crit/rda/ca/proc/poison what an increase/decrease will do for my dps based on my particular style of play. But here's the kicker, it doesn't take into consideration STR/INT since i have no idea how to account for this (read: no one has done the grunt work for me by deriving the equations and posting on some boards somewhere). So in reality, my spreadsheet is nothing more than a fun, inaccurate toy. Long story short, get gear which increased the stats you have the least of and you'll probably be better for the ware.

Rohoni/Poncho/Esshines
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Last edited by Rohoni; 07-22-2008 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:19 AM  
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Default Re: Ranger Math



Resource: Maximizing DPS as a Raid Wizard - A Guide
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Old 07-22-2008, 01:37 PM  
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Default Re: Ranger Math



Problem solved
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:08 PM  
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Default Re: Ranger Math

Go back to your "math homework", Kradun :P
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:27 PM  
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Default Re: Ranger Math

I do it best when on my bed.... alone.
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:19 PM  
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Default Re: Ranger Math

Based on the assumtion, that the curve for stats/effect is a quadratic equation i did some calculations with different numbers (DPS, STR, /weaponstats) which brought me to the following formula:

y = (c - b) / a² * (x - a)² + b

y = actual effect
x = current stat
a = cap of stat
b = cap of effect
c = effect with 0 stat

*It is not 100% correct, there are some differences between calculated numbers and ingame numbers, but its about 95% correct imo.

Example 1 - Calculate how much effective DPS you have with 120 DPS mod:

x = 120
a = 200 (DPS cap)
b = 125 (with 200 DPS you do 125% more damage)
c = 0 (with 0 DPS you do 0% more damage)

y = (0 - 125) / 200² * (120 - 200)² +125 = 105 (ingame value is 102%)

Example 2 - Calculate the top end damage of mythical eagles talon with 872 STR and 46 DPS mod:

x = 872
a = 1220 (STR cap; 15 * Level + 20)
b = 4547 (1156 * 1,49 * 2,64; Max-Dmg * DPS-Mod * Modifier)
c = 2721 (1156 * 1,49 * 1,58; Max-Dmg * DPS-Mod * Modifier)

*From testing with max and min STR i found out the max and min modifier for autoattack on eagles talon (not tested with other weapons, it may differ for them)

y = (2721 - 4547) / 1220² * (872 - 1220)² + 4547 = 4398 (ingame value is 4351 without arrows)

*If you have some arrows in your quiver/ammo slot, weaponstats calculates that in; for ferrite field point arrows its 108 added

Example 3 - Calculate the damage of searing shot with 872 STR:

x = 872
a = 1085 (STR cap; 15 * Level + 20)
b = 554 - 924 (Tooltip of Searing Shot with 1085 STR)
c = 332 - 554 (60% of capped damage)

y1 = (332 - 554) / 1085² * (872 - 1085)² + 554 = 545 (ingame value is 542)

y2 = (554 - 924) / 1085² * (872 - 1085)² + 924 = 910 (ingame value is 904)

*For CAs/Spells the cap is always the level of the CA/Spell, lowest possible damage is 60% of capped damage
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:50 PM  
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Default Re: Ranger Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohoni View Post
AA Damage is modified as such (and we'll assume based damage = 1.0)
AA Damage = 1.0 x (1+Haste%) x (1+DPS%) x (1+RDA%) x [Crit Mod% x (1+Crit%)]

Thats not correct at all, its rather

AA Damage = 1.0 x (1+Haste%) x (1+DPS%) x (1+RDA%) x (1 + Crit Mod% x Crit%)

because the Crit Mod% only affects crit hits and not non crit hits.


Crit values increase CA damageby a factor of 1.3 or 130%. So you're change in CA damage is simply: increase/decrease in crit% x 130%, 1% crit = 1.3% increase in CA damage.

Also not correct at all imo, afaik like for autoattack crits that are lower than the highest noncrit are rounded up.
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