Illuminator

Doh!

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80/140 Wizard, 80/140 Illusionist, 80/140 Warden, 80/128 Troubador, etc.



HA HA fuck you, Roger. And don't vote for Obama.

Dehah

If you or anyone has any evidence that a member of Club Fu TS bots then that is evidence I would like to have.

I am not the leader of Club Fu, and even if I was I would not kick someone out of the guild based on pure conjecture from other people. I may have a strict moral code but that doesn't mean I go on witch hunts. I won't drown someone as a witch just because their neighbor accused them of one. I also have to take into consideration the credibility of all reports. Ixnay was in direct competition with this person, and any report Ixnay has on the fact could be biased. I'm not saying he is biased, all I am saying is that to be completely fair, I need more proof.

I leveled my sage to 50 back in the day when it was hard to do it. I leveled one sole toon back then when it was arguably more difficult to be a loner due to interdependence. The person in question leveled multiple toons at the same time, and never had a problem with interdependence because they could make everything they needed.

When I left my previous guild I had one requirement of my new guild: That the leadership had a no tolerance policy to cheating and tradeskill botting. I talked to the leader of Club Fu, asked him if there were any TS botters in Club Fu, he said there were none. I asked him what would happen if a TS botter was uncovered; he said they would be guild removed. That, my friend, is why I am in Club Fu.

The person in question has played the game for almost 2 years, perhaps more. Do you know how long it took them to reach 70 on one character? This person did nothing but craft for a really long time, and with the help of his wife, has become one of the richest players on the server. They are a few of the hardest working players that I know of, and I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that they are honest hardworking players until the day comes that either:

A) This person admits to using a TS Botting program.
B) Someone has real evidence of TS Botting.

This is my flame thread? Come on, tell me how you really feel.

LFG

Dehah, I remain friends with the majority of your guild, and this is absolutely not a criticizm of Club Fu. This comment involves you and Emma only.

Ok with my disclaimer out of the way, my comment is this:

You saying what you said above would be like me driving up to the mexican border in a small car and saying "Gee Officer, I didn't know there was 600 lbs of marijuana in the trunk."

It might be literally true, but you can't possibly expect the judge or jury to believe it.

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"Bottom line: we're not all being honest with ourselves here." Become, Kraken forums

Gori

Wait, wait....we can't use assumptions to form opinions which we then pass off as moral truths? Damn, you kill all the fun.

Dehah

I don't think that is a good analogy. In your analogy, an officer caught someone doing something illegal (600 lbs of marijuana in the trunk). There is evidence involved (600 lbs of marijuana). In real life, we have no evidence.

A better analogy for the situation would be:

I'm driving across the Mexico border and an officer goes, "Hey *spit* I know you *chew*chew* yer cuz is da one dat grows da mary'jew'wana ain't he!"

There is a large difference between having evidence (600 lbs of marijuana), and talking out of your ass. If you have evidence, then please let me see it, otherwise you are just going to remain someone with a personal vendetta against another person for "invading your markets".

LFG

Eyewitness evidence is evidence, and is admissable in every court in the world.

I changed computers a while back, then switched servers, then wiped the contents of my screenshots, which I formerly had showing the person's level 7 toons dead on the floor of a crafting instance on multiple occasions, when you used to be able to die from failing to properly counter tradeskill reactions.

Screenshots don't prove anything by the way, except that you took a screenshot. How can you prove tradeskill botting with a screenshot, and exactly what is evidence of that?

The only real evidence is of dozens to hundreds of people who used to comment on that by this person frequently, in the Freeport crafting channel on the Blackburrow server. That is evidence.

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"Bottom line: we're not all being honest with ourselves here." Become, Kraken forums

LFG

Lol, is that what he told you, "invading my markets"? Not exactly. But you are correct that I wasn't going to tolerate the biggest known macro botter in the history of the Blackburrow server do to me what I'd seen him do to dozens of others who he ruined the game for, and who all left the game after he moved in on them.

You knew or should have known of this tradeskill macroing Sir, and are a hypocrite who is being wilfully blind in this situation.

There is no such thing as "smoking gun" evidence of tradeskill botting, except a direct admission by the person involved.

Ask in your own guild Sir, and you will find that Emma has in fact admitted tradeskill botting to others in your own guild. Do you think he is going to admit that to you? Do you think anyone is going to come forward and admit they were told that by Emma?

I will never forget watching your guild chat, as a member of your guild, and watching Emma's toons get ding after tradeskill ding in the middle of the night, sometimes on more than one crafter at the same time during the same night. And then suddenly one or both of the macroed toons would log off, and Emma would thereafter log on and say "good morning" or similar.

This was all plainly known to the community before, during and after you became guilded, as shown here:

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/e...ery.id=0#M3952

These things stand alone as evidence. This testimony would be admissible if this was a court. And the verdict would be fucking guilty as charged.

You want to dance around and play these petty evidentiary games saying that it isn't true unless it is proven by "smoking gun" evidence. There ain't none in this world. We all make our opinions on who and what we believe, based on the total evidence shown, including eyewitness and other evidence.

And all that evidence adds up to the fact that you are rationalizing and acting wilfully blind toward a situation, because investigating it and then coming to realize it is true would require you to do difficult, unpleasant things.

So go on ahead and continue denying this without lifting a finger to determine that it is in fact true. It's easier and more comfortable that way.

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"Bottom line: we're not all being honest with ourselves here." Become, Kraken forums

LFG

What is evidence of tradeskill botting Dehah?

You want the truth, the real story? I clearly remember, back in the day, the only reason Emma joined Club Fu was because he was getting tired of getting busted with level six botted toons dead in front of a crafting station for 8+ hours, back in the day when you could die by failing to properly counter tradeskill buffs. He would get bombarded and heckled by those comments to no end in the crafting channel on a daily basis.

So he wasn't guilded then, and realized he needed to join a guild that was at least level 25 so he could buy pristine quality crafting stations, and could then shut off all visitor access to his house and macro bot in peace with his own crafting center.

Why does Emma craft in his own house Dehah, and not have visitor access enabled while he is crafting? Do you have an explanation for that?

How the fuck is ANYONE going to get "proof", as you call it, of botting against someone who bots in a house with no visitor access? You can't, this person intentionally set themselves up so that no further "proof" would ever be possible.

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"Bottom line: we're not all being honest with ourselves here." Become, Kraken forums

Usildor

So basically, Dehah is saying one of two things have to happen in order for him to believe someone is a bot:

1) publicly admit it (only an idiot would do this as it could lead to banning)
2) someone to go to their house and take a picture of them using the macro program.

Well if that's the case, i'll bet there aren't any botters in all of EQ2!! Hooray!

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Morara

Fixed