Developers of EQ2 - Page 3

Kiara · 01-09-2007, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

If you're not a min/maxer, then what kinds of stupid shit should someone expect to catch you doing, like wearing cloth on a melee fight? Using App4's on your main when you can perfectly afford Adept 1's and even 3's? Is "I'm not a min/maxer" an ample excuse to be a retard? What aren't you doing that you should be doing during combat, that makes you "not a min/maxer"?

I'd love to put all these "I'm as good as a raider" types on an orange mob raid and watch them keep the bottom of the parse all warm and comfy.

Not a problem. Come raid with me anytime.

My gear isn't the GREATEST, but I'm upgrading as I come across the yummy stuff.

My spells are Ad3 and mastered. Doesn't make me a min/maxer. Anyone who has raided with me can tell you I'm damn good at my class.

You don't have to be all about the parse to be good at the game.

Gaige · 01-09-2007, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadarX

But Blizzard is pulling in a crapton of money because they've put solo content in their game. The ACTUAL research they did shows that people aren't all that interested in a lot of group combat until the end game. Even then, people want solo content.

Blizzard makes a fuckton of money because they're Blizzard and they have a huge prescence in Asia.

One of the numerous complaints against WoW is that its basically a single player game until 60 and then you either PvP or raid or quit. WoW is far from a solo game the entire time, they just made getting to 60 easy.

That said, with the success of WoW and the playstyle of WoW readily available already in the marketplace its fucking retarded to compete against them or try to out casual WoW. You can't outdo Blizzard at making WoW, so why try?

The key is to fill niches in the marketplace and cater to your audience and give them what they want. If you spread yourself too thin trying to please everyone, in the end you'll please no one.

CCC has the best idea with how to do it right and be successful while catering to a niche, just look at Eve Online.

The best thing SOE could do to compete with Blizzard and WoW isn't to turn every game they touch into WoW, its to turn every game they touch into something different, appealing to a different market. Then put all of those games on the Station Pass and give their players lots of choices for a low monthly fee.

That way they can draw revenue and profits from a lot of players without clusterfucking every game they touch into a wannabe WoW clone with hints of EQ1 and a raid game. Doing that makes everyone unhappy, unless the people are playing your game to have a graphic chat session.

Its readily apparant if you read the forums or talk to people in game. Solo'ers don't have enough solo content, crafters can't craft fulltime, raiders can't raid enough.

No one is happy because the game is trying to please too many different types of people.

So even if you are right, and SOE is WoW'ing their game in order to compete, its still a pretty fucking retarded thing to do.

LFG · 01-09-2007, 02:38 PM

Just my opinions:

I've always felt that "min/maxing" was just playing the game in the most efficient and intelligent way possible, since that would yield the best results and rewards.

Am I wrong? If not, why would anyone NOT want to be a min/maxer? I don't understand.

Gaige · 01-09-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiara

You don't have to be all about the parse to be good at the game.

Which isn't the problem. The problem is you can be all about the parse and not be any better than someone who isn't all about the parse. If you inspect them, you probably wouldn't be different at all.

There is no reason to be dedicated to EQ2, if anything being dedicated to the game is less rewarding than playing it casually.

That, to a lot of players, doesn't make sense. Considering a lot of players view time invested as the means for reward - since skill in an MMO is relative, usually players are seperated by the time they have to invest.

Must like any hobby, you should get better at it as you do it more, however generally speaking in EQ2 this isn't the case.

Kiara · 01-09-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFG

Just my opinions:

I've always felt that "min/maxing" was just playing the game in the most efficient and intelligent way possible, since that would yield the best results and rewards.

Am I wrong? If not, why would anyone NOT want to be a min/maxer? I don't understand.

It could be a differing definition of min maxing...

Like... I hate high elves. Hate em. Never will make a high elf no matter how good their stats are for whatever.

Likewise... I love dark elves. Will play a dark elf over any other race no matter how much they suck for the class I choose.

I will NOT wear an absolutely disgustingly ugly piece of armour... I'll suck it up and wait for a good piece that looks decent.

I use a two handed weapon, even though everyone else runs around with a mace and a shield... Because I like the two handed weapons better.

My stats aren't bad or awful or anything else. They COULD be better, but I'm not willing to sacrifice personal preference for 10 points of wisdom when I'm already over 400.

That's why I say I'm not a min maxer. I still go for the best gear I can grab and look for wis/int first. I still make sure all my spells are the best upgrade I can get. Which by someone else's definition might make me a min maxer... no idea.

RadarX · 01-09-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaige

Blizzard makes a fuckton of money because they're Blizzard and they have a huge prescence in Asia.

One of the numerous complaints against WoW is that its basically a single player game until 60 and then you either PvP or raid or quit. WoW is far from a solo game the entire time, they just made getting to 60 easy.

That said, with the success of WoW and the playstyle of WoW readily available already in the marketplace its fucking retarded to compete against them or try to out casual WoW. You can't outdo Blizzard at making WoW, so why try?

The key is to fill niches in the marketplace and cater to your audience and give them what they want. If you spread yourself too thin trying to please everyone, in the end you'll please no one.

CCC has the best idea with how to do it right and be successful while catering to a niche, just look at Eve Online.

The best thing SOE could do to compete with Blizzard and WoW isn't to turn every game they touch into WoW, its to turn every game they touch into something different, appealing to a different market. Then put all of those games on the Station Pass and give their players lots of choices for a low monthly fee.

That way they can draw revenue and profits from a lot of players without clusterfucking every game they touch into a wannabe WoW clone with hints of EQ1 and a raid game. Doing that makes everyone unhappy, unless the people are playing your game to have a graphic chat session.

Its readily apparant if you read the forums or talk to people in game. Solo'ers don't have enough solo content, crafters can't craft fulltime, raiders can't raid enough.

No one is happy because the game is trying to please too many different types of people.

So even if you are right, and SOE is WoW'ing their game in order to compete, its still a pretty fucking retarded thing to do.

One of the numerous complaints their 2.5 million subs in North America make? Interesting.

The best thing SOE *DID* was to make the game friendly to non-hardcore players which opened their market up. And I hate to disagree with you (well...not realy) but different doesn't succeed. As innovative as it was, who won between EQ2 and WoW? WoW was just different enough. You can blame a lot on Asia but that doesn't explain the US market being probably what? 5-10 times larger?

EVE Online is niche. REAL niche. To a hardcorer like yourself, it may seem like the perfect idea, and while they do have a wonderfully dedicated community, that game probably won't get much larger.

LFG · 01-09-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaige

Its readily apparant if you read the forums or talk to people in game. Solo'ers don't have enough solo content, crafters can't craft fulltime, raiders can't raid enough.

No one is happy because the game is trying to please too many different types of people.

This is a good point. Let's say you want to take a warm shower. There are many different shower choices on the market, with EQ2 being one of them. So you buy EQ2, and discover that what you have now is one bucket of boiling water, and one bucket of ice water. You don't have anything like a tub or plumbing that will mix this water together for an even temperature and cause it to sprinkle down on your head in a pleasant manner.

Boiling water and ice water have their own, different purposes, but nobody is going to be happy sticking one foot into a bucket of each and calling that a shower.

I strongly agree that SoE should concentrate on niche markets rather than continue its losing battle of making "me too" games that try and knock the ball out of the park. The WoW stadium is just too damn big at this point. It's 3 balls, 2 strikes, and we're in the 9th. Don't bet the farm on a home run, just go for the base hit. Don't try to be like WoW, try to be something people like me want to play, which is NOT WoW. I want to buy and play "not-WoW" games. I don't want to be one of 5 million, I was always a "disco sucks" guy.

RadarX · 01-09-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFG

Just my opinions:

I've always felt that "min/maxing" was just playing the game in the most efficient and intelligent way possible, since that would yield the best results and rewards.

Am I wrong? If not, why would anyone NOT want to be a min/maxer? I don't understand.

It's about a difference in attitude. There are times when I'm ratcheted down and I want to get stuff done. I'm worried about who is doing what, and why.

The are other times I entertain myself by screwing with the tank non-stop.

That lets me taste a little of both worlds but neither to the extreme. There is nothing wrong with testing strats, switching out gear, tinkering with your AA's. But you have to understand you guys push the envelope which means you are on the edge of the paper. The rest of us are on the paper itself.

LFG · 01-09-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiara

I will NOT wear an absolutely disgustingly ugly piece of armour... I'll suck it up and wait for a good piece that looks decent.

This is a main difference. I will wear the butt ugly armor, like the KoS arms that look like they have spider nest epaulets or wings on the shoulders or whatever the hell that horrible design is, if those max my HP and power.

I'll bitch about the look constantly and that will really make me feel negative toward the game, but I'll still wear the damn things because they are the best for doing what needs to get done.

I like the GQ, but will always max the EQ first.

Kiara · 01-09-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFG

This is a main difference. I will wear the butt ugly armor, like the KoS arms that look like they have spider nest epaulets or wings on the shoulders or whatever the hell that horrible design is, if those max my HP and power.

I'll bitch about the look constantly and that will really make me feel negative toward the game, but I'll still wear the damn things because they are the best for doing what needs to get done.

I like the GQ, but will always max the EQ first.

Well there ya go

Doesn't make me less good at my class or less skilled though

Just ... ya know. A girl.

As it is... I clash SO bad right now it makes my teeth itch.