Eq2 Players Mod - Page 4

Malachani · 09-28-2006, 11:31 AM

Look guys, You need to stop posting this site to eq2players forum. Just STOP. We are creating enough of a stir without having to go over there and be little shits about it. The powers that be are completely up in arms about this site, and they don't need to be chasing down every thread that mentions us.

Suffice it to say, if you post "I heard on another site..." that every mod will know what you're talking about, and I would venture to guess that a majority (just more than 50%) of the players will also know.

This site is wildly popular. I would like to make it moreso. I would love to get more casual types in here, non-raiders, and tradeskillers. I see them trickling in (/wave to Sqee) and that makes me so happy.

I spread the word very innocuously. My sig on eq2players links to my player bio. My player bio contains this site within it. If signatures can exist that link to a site that link to Plat Sellers, then mine can link to a site that mentions this one.

Be sly, be creative, but don't go out there and be an ass on their board in the name of this one. Don't link to it (even if a thread warrants it), don't go spam everywhere that its the best site in the world. But hint, bury it in context, make it so that people will be curious about what board you're talking about, and they may ask you.

Please for the love of God, quit being asses. You only make this site look bad when you do that.

LFG · 09-28-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadarX

The forum rules have never been that specific, you know that. It's a policy driven system with a large number of judgement calls made. They put their faith in the people they chose to run the site.

And that is why there are so many claims of favoritism. Because loose rules cannot be interpreted uniformly by different people, and the result is at least the appearance of arbitrary enforcement.

I write rules to prohibit conduct that it would be hard for anyone to misinterpret. When someone does something unacceptable that I hadn't forseen, I revise my rules to include that conduct in the future. The people must have this notice and an idea about what is and isn't allowed. To have rules that effectively state: "we reserve the right to do whatever the hell we want about anything" is pure bullshit.

Arthais · 09-28-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurta

That makes sense but even if said company doesn't make a rule a RULE who says they can't run things they want to b/c it's theirs to run how they see fit? SoE is a huge corporation and surely they have thought of most if not all arguments about rights and use of their forums and game itself. Again, I think this is somehow tied to the EULA and more than that to the simple fact that if someone doesn't like the practices no one is forcing them to continue the relationship they can quit at any time...be that the game or using the forums which they don't necessarily have to provide but do.

Oh well absolutly they CAN. I've never argued otherwise. I've seen enough people yell "omg I have the right to free speech!" on the forums, and I've just shook my head and walked away (ok...maybe not ALWAYS walked away, but that's besides the point).

It's just that in failing to make rules open to all to see, they risk making their rules while being subjective, discriminatory and with bias. And it's up to each individual as to how much they wish to remain in a system that is potentially subjective, discriminatory, and biased.

But they certainly CAN do it, I just question whether it's wise to.

Arthais · 09-28-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadarX

The forum rules have never been that specific, you know that. It's a policy driven system with a large number of judgement calls made. They put their faith in the people they chose to run the site.

True, and that "other thread" is on HOW many pages, based on that exact problem?

Adaptability and flexibility are good, but when it becomes too flexible, too adapatble, when it becomes "you can't do this for no other reason then I said so" well....yeah they CAN run things that way, but is it good business?

Is it even good ethically?

RadarX · 09-28-2006, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthais

Perhaps that's just my irritating law training. The general theory of the legal system is, and I'm quoting a case I happen to be researching right now:

"ignorance of the law is not a defense, because everyone is assumed to know the law. However the presumption that everyone knows the law is based on the law being available to all. Those laws that are kept from the public eye can not be seen to have the weight of legal authority."

I've always agreed with that, my particular school of thought has always been "if you want a rule to be a rule, it is YOUR job as a company to make sure that this rule as known. If not, it's not a rule, and you have only yourself to blame when it is violated"

You know what the last line of my daytime job description says?

"Others duties as they may be assigned."

Thats legal for "We can shaft you with whatever we want."

So Sav and Nurta hit the nail right on the head. It's vague, so it's fluid and can be utlized as they need it to be. I can't fault them for making it so they can do whatever they want. It's a business *shrug*

Blueboy · 09-28-2006, 11:39 AM

I am glad this site came out and is successful cause Echgar is the biggest cheese dick i ever had to deal with in Everquest in my 8+ years between eq and eq2. He deleted posts that were not bad and then twisted my words to justify why they got deleted.
So just a big Fuck you goes out to Echgar from me.

Arthais · 09-28-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadarX

So Sav and Nurta hit the nail right on the head. It's vague, so it's fluid and can be utlized as they need it to be. I can't fault them for making it so they can do whatever they want. It's a business *shrug*

But when, especially when you're in a community enviornment dealing with other people rather than internalized company business, does giving people the power to "do whatever they want" just become bad business?

As I said, they can do it, it's their right (within their legal limits). SOE does seem to often operate under the policy of "it's our game, screw you, we do as we want" but look what it's caused. 35 pages on one thread on a forum that didn't even exist a week ago.

Hell I can pretty much say, with virtual certainty (and LFG may well back me up on this) that the reason this forum exists in the FIRST place is because policies like that.

yeah, they can do it. At what point does it bite them in the ass for doing it though?

RadarX · 09-28-2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthais

True, and that "other thread" is on HOW many pages, based on that exact problem?

Adaptability and flexibility are good, but when it becomes too flexible, too adapatble, when it becomes "you can't do this for no other reason then I said so" well....yeah they CAN run things that way, but is it good business?

Is it even good ethically?

Flexibility is good business yes. Being able to adjust to market changes, consumer demands...these are all basic business tactics. Too flexible? Who gets to make that determination? SOE? The moderators? The small percentage of people who are very vocal about this?

SOE's business plan involves them selling a product. If you like the product, you buy it and pay for it. If you don't, you walk. A lot of you haven't become familiar with Blizzard. You think SOE is bad about their customers? Blizzard doesn't give a rat's ass who you are. They've got 7 million other people. The fansites get almost nothing, and the customers get whatever product they feel like producing.

RadarX · 09-28-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthais

yeah, they can do it. At what point does it bite them in the ass for doing it though?

Like I said in my other post. I point you to Blizzard which I got a taste of first hand at E3. They do whatever they want and people are still flocking. That attitude obviously works. Over there, you're a customer, they appreciate your opinion, but if they don't like it? Sorry. We value your business....

Arthais · 09-28-2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadarX

Flexibility is good business yes. Being able to adjust to market changes, consumer demands...these are all basic business tactics. Too flexible? Who gets to make that determination? SOE? The moderators? The small percentage of people who are very vocal about this?

SOE's business plan involves them selling a product. If you like the product, you buy it and pay for it. If you don't, you walk. A lot of you haven't become familiar with Blizzard. You think SOE is bad about their customers? Blizzard doesn't give a rat's ass who you are. They've got 7 million other people. The fansites get almost nothing, and the customers get whatever product they feel like producing.

Yeah but isn't that kind of like saying "Pol Pot wasn't THAT bad, at least he wasn't Hitler!" (yes, I godwined).

Flexibility, adjustment to market and consumer demands yes yes yes, all well and good.

But the line between flexibility and arbitrariness is a fine one, and one I'm not sure the eq2 forums haven't crossed over from time to time. That's the problem.