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  1. #1
    Player versus Tard
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    Default Raid Tier 2 Gear and it's effect on builds

    So I've been messing around a bit with the T2 raid gear, the extra stat boosts are changing the relative strength of all the builds. For example, the BD/Assn/NB build isn't seeing the same relative increase in dps as Sab-BD. I think once people are geared up new builds will probably come out as the best.

    Here's some things I've noticed:

    Dex buffs are now more important then crit % buffs. For example the T2 raid gear is giving me 785 dex, so with Sab-BD with 7 points into improving dex you get a 6% increase in crit and 82 attack power - that's a lot better then 5 points in assassin or ranger only giving you 5% crit.

    I think this is one of the reasons why Sab-BD is improving more relatively then other current top dps builds with T2 gear. The stat creep is huge with better essences and big jumps in the stats on gear.

    I haven't messed around too much, but seeing how Sab-BD is scaling so well I didn't see too much of a point yet. I'm hitting 1495 with Sab-BD on the dummy on test, with assn/nb/bd only hitting 1400.

    Anyone else messed about on test?

    It might also be a good idea to stack dex instead of crit, but I haven't tested it enough to say one way or another yet. Self buffed I'm at 55% crit + lethal so 60%. Add in raid buffs too and it's really getting up there.

  2. #2
    The Bard of Aigis
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    Default Re: Raid Tier 2 Gear and it's effect on builds

    Hasn't the stat importance always been; DEX > Crit > AP (and when you can get about 50% crit in raids start stacking AP) because of the larger DEX boost you get from certain souls?


    And if people were wondering with the t2 raid gear on PTS you can get around 1300crit and 1000 AP (this was in my battle bard spec) so it is probably much higher with the crit/dex enhancing souls.

    When do you usually get on test? I only really raid 2 days a week, so I have a ton of free time too for messing around on test.
    Tigruz
    Rift - Belmont Server - 50 Rogue
    EQ2 - 70 Assassin

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Raid Tier 2 Gear and it's effect on builds

    Certain abilities don't scale well with ap, like fiery spike. I think certain nb builds stacked crit over ap, same with assassin/rng using impale, puncture and fiery spike. I know someone with worse gear then me who stacks ap as a MM/Rng/Assn and parses a little higher then I do with worse gear... have a feeling ap is good for that build but haven't tested it.

    I'm on whenver, toon's name is either Mayi (cleric) or Iskiab (rogue) and I'm on off and on, usually off primetime when others aren't on.

  4. #4
    Brings the pain
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    Default Re: Raid Tier 2 Gear and it's effect on builds

    At first we will be using a BD spec of some kind for the hit. I'm sticking with sab/bd and 27bd as my main 2 dps specs. After hit is no longer an issue, who knows. I do agree that with the stats the sab and bd +dex will end up being pretty beefy.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Raid Tier 2 Gear and it's effect on builds

    Yea, the new 'hit' number will be 300. I've been trying to bring my hit down but with the new raid I'll have issues hitting 300. I think I'm at maybe 280 or so hit because I have 1/2 raid gear so far from when I raided as the only rogue, or one of 2-3 rogues per raid.

    The BD bonus to hit will be a must... I think the Sab-BD will have longevity, which is good because I'm so used to it now.

    Even with 200 hit in T2s you still ony hit 99% of the time, I think I didn't hit 100% until around 220-230 hit, so imagine it'll be 330 for T3.



    *hit edit by mistake , kythik

  6. #6
    Brings the pain
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    Default Re: Raid Tier 2 Gear and it's effect on builds

    t1 is 220 and t2 is 320. Until you get 3-4 items in HK to make up the hit bd will be mandatory. Not that it wouldn't be otherwise. I found it kinda funny that warriors SLI gets nerfed and rogues get the same kind of crutch given to us.

    only one spec is viable w/o deadly dance and it wont be in HK til hit capped...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #7
    Player versus Tard
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    Default Re: Raid Tier 2 Gear and it's effect on builds

    So right now there's a Hoko spec that's all hot on the forums as top dps. It uses wolf as the pet from ranger. My first impression was, 'pet won't scale well' but he posted some pretty high numbers.

    I finally got around to testing it out today. The pet scales just as poorly as fiery spike, and I topped out around 1410 on the dummy.

    So for rogue dummy parses with raid T2 gear so far it's:

    1495 - Sab-bd
    1410 - Hoko's spec
    1390 - Assassin-BD-NB

    In my eyes, sab-bd is still the build to beat. On the dummy with the change to deadly strike I'm only hitting 1080 on test with T1 raid gear, which is not good comparatively. Competitive specs like melee ranger, assassin-bd-nb, Hoko's are hitting between 1150-1180 but they don't appear to scale as well.

    I'm not sure how long it will take for people to get to that gear level, but considering people will need the hit from bd at first, and might be geared later when they finally don't need the hit... there might never be a reason to change to anything else.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Raid Tier 2 Gear and it's effect on builds

    Update - with the rotation:

    Puncture - spike x3 - deadly strike - spike x2 - detonate
    Shrapnel x5 - detonate

    I hit 1220 on the dummy. That's only a little less then pre-1.3. So with raid T2 gear I'd expect to be another ~100 dps higher.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Raid Tier 2 Gear and it's effect on builds

    So I wanted to get a better understanding of how builds scale and rechecked some numbers, here's what I discovered:

    1. Pets do scale, just very poorly. Their crit chance doesn't follow your crit chance, but they do gain the benefit of your stats. It's odd but using the wolf naked it almost never crit, but self buffed 60% crit the wolf's maul will only pretty consistently at 27% and bite at 40% as a cap. Maybe there's an internal cap to how high you can get it's crit up to? I'm not sure. It's possible they put the cap on the wolf to encourage players to spec for the raptor, I didn't test it. This is probably one of many reasons why stacking ap is best for MM builds.

    2. Sab-BD scales very well. The spike charge damage scales moreso from your weapon damage. When I tried a mix of T1 weapons and T2 gear, my damage increased a lot and shrapnel became a higher % of my damage. I think shrapnel benefits more from ap then spike, which makes sense since shrapnel is a DD with a % of damage dot and spike is a true dot.

    I concluded that melee ranger will be a dead build sometime into T2 raiding. I can't say for sure about ranger/MM builds, they might be OK if you heavily stack ap and ignore crit. The pet doesn't scale well and SO doesn't scale at all. Taking advantage of SO works well with T1 raid gear and lower gear levels but it won't work long term.

    I also rechecked some dummy numbers... here's what I got on the dummy:

    Sab-BD
    T1 raid - 1250
    T2 raid - 1550

    Hoko's Ranger
    T1 raid - 1180
    T2 raid - 1404

    Unless there's a patch, time to start saving up for the greater essence that adds 70 onto shrapnel charge. I think Sab-BD is here to stay.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Raid Tier 2 Gear and it's effect on builds

    The thing about Hoko's spec is it's so situational. It is made to make the most of SO so on the dummy it is not scaling well I have yet to use it in raid however there are rogues in my guild using it and it is outparsing sab-bd on fights like warmaster and plutonus. If you have a 5th role I guess it's worth picking up I happen to prefer both sab builds myself. I end up ranged alot on oracle since we have 100 dps warriors in my guild so taking one for team. =P

    BTW what greater essence adds to shrapnel only one I saw was for frag which is meh at best.

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