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Thread: Tank

  1. #1
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    Default Tank

    Begin

    aka Exco
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tank

    Dodge-emphasis BiS: Dodge-Emphasis Riftstalker Tanking BiS Item List *UPDATED Patch 1.2* | Unstable

    Best all around tank spec: Soul Tree Calculator: Riftstalker (51) / Bladedancer (8) / Ranger (7) :: Rift :: ZAM
    Max HP (less avoidance) niche spec: Soul Tree Calculator: Riftstalker (51) / Ranger (8) / Bard (7) :: Rift :: ZAM

    Rogue tanks are in a good spot right now, the only inadequecy I feel is the lack of an interrupt. We also have no equivalent to block, so as gear inflates they will need to give us something to keep us on par with warriors increasingly high block or we'll quickly become shit.

    The only macros I use:

    #show Phantom Blow
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Reprisal
    cast Phantom Blow

    #show Planar Strike
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Reprisal
    cast Planar Strike

    #show Twin Strike
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Reprisal
    cast Twin Strike

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Tank

    I don't understand why the Bladedancer spec is touted as best all around. I really think the Health and Armor from Bard is better.

    The reason is the +% to Health from going 51 in RS affects the health provided by Bard. I think this outweighs the small Dodge improvement from Bladedancer. Also, my experience is that since Twin Strike doesn't generate additional threat it's inferior to spamming Planar Strike a few times, throwing a finisher, and tabbing to the next mob.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Tank

    Max health is only best up to a certain point and then you'd better off with avoidance and mitigation. This has been true for tanks in basically every MMO over the last decade.

    BD gives:
    10% dodge
    Passive AoE threat with Strike back
    Reprisal
    +40 Dex buff
    Side Steps (awesome)
    Twin Strike

    Why would I give all this up for some extra health that will only matter in the rare case my healer is feared or stunned or something and I redline? Twin Strike does not generate additional threat but couple it with Strike Back and PD on cooldown and you will never have to tab between targets to hold aoe threat again.

    Bard has it's place, and that place is for encounters where your avoidance means dick. If you're tanking something that does nothing but spam magic damage, you'd be better off switching to bard.

  5. #5
    Fofum
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    Default Re: Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Viafuyo View Post
    Max health is only best up to a certain point and then you'd better off with avoidance and mitigation. This has been true for tanks in basically every MMO over the last decade.

    BD gives:
    10% dodge
    Passive AoE threat with Strike back
    Reprisal
    +40 Dex buff
    Side Steps (awesome)
    Twin Strike

    Why would I give all this up for some extra health that will only matter in the rare case my healer is feared or stunned or something and I redline? Twin Strike does not generate additional threat but couple it with Strike Back and PD on cooldown and you will never have to tab between targets to hold aoe threat again.

    Bard has it's place, and that place is for encounters where your avoidance means dick. If you're tanking something that does nothing but spam magic damage, you'd be better off switching to bard.
    I'm fairly convinced that 10% health and 2% absorption > 8% dodge (it isn't 10% more because Bard gives 2% with the EHP build), especially considering you no longer have to worry about getting and keeping up False Blade.

    Even if the math and healing mechanics didn't state as much, which I'm fairly certain they do, the only mechanics that currently do enough damage to make you shit your pants are magic damage (dragon breaths, tanking alsbeth in the air while tanking an add at the same time, shocking cipher).

    Which isn't to say that there wont some day be a fight that is 100% rape-status physical damage (I'm sure there will be), at which point I might consider making a heavy avoidance spec (or, more likely, just let a warrior or cleric tank it as block is amazing). Those fights don't exist at the moment, though.

    Fully buffed, with 51rs/8rng/7brd I have:
    17.4k hp
    53% absorption before armor/resists
    22.57% total avoidance

    With 51rs/8bd/7rng (the build you posted above):
    15.8k HP
    51% absorption before armor/resists
    30.57% total avoidance
    +Side Steps (Only useful in very specific situations unless you're pugging with a terrible healer, as I never really need a cooldown more frequently than Planar Refuge/Scatter the Shadows are available, both of which protect against both magic and physical damage)

    With the latter build, comparatively, I dodge ~11.5% more often than I do with my current build, but for the other ~88.5% of physical attacks, and 100% of magic attacks, I take a minimum of 4.25% more damage per hit, and have 1600 less HP to boot. (I can explain these numbers in another post when I have more free time if you need it)

    Couple all of the above with the fact that EHP is 100% reliable while avoidance is not, and instead tends to be spiky and thus less ideal from a healing perspective, and I come to the following:

    I prefer the EHP build once you get a certain threshold for gear. Being that the Bard HP bonus is % based, it obviously becomes more and more powerful the better your gear (and thus the higher your endurance) gets. Until about the time you get full t2 gear and start filling out your source machine with RR essences, it probably is better to use the spec with BD in it. Once you start wearing t3 quality gear, however, I feel that the EHP build is more efficient in almost any circumstance, and certainly in all of the currently available endgame content (GSB, RoS, and GP).

  6. #6
    Player versus Tard
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    Default Re: Tank

    For T2s, I think this is the best build. I'd use this one up until you raid:

    Soul Tree Calculator: Riftstalker (51) / Bladedancer (8) / Bard (7) :: Rift :: ZAM

    Anthem of glory is useless in raids because archon provides an armor buff, but I've found people don't play archon in T2s so I think you'd be nuts if you don't pick it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feefai View Post
    Which isn't to say that there wont some day be a fight that is 100% rape-status physical damage (I'm sure there will be), at which point I might consider making a heavy avoidance spec (or just let a warrior or cleric tank it). Those fights don't exist at the moment, though.

    Fully buffed, with 51rs/8rng/7brd I have:
    17.4k hp
    53% absorption before armor/resists
    22.57% total avoidance

    With 51rs/8bd/7rng (the build you posted above):
    15.8k HP
    51% absorption before armor/resists
    30.57% total avoidance
    +Side Steps (Only useful in very specific situations unless you're pugging with a terrible healer, as I never really need a cooldown more frequently than Planar Refuge/Scatter the Shadows are available, both of which protect against both magic and physical damage)
    For rape status physical damage I'd just switch to a warrior. They've been beefed up and I've found they take a lot less physical damage. Since release warriors have been slowly beefed up and it's quite a difference now.

    I've thought about using the build you posted but what holds me back is a potential loss in aoe threat. Do you have issues? My concern was the loss of the combination of strike back, side steps and quick reflexes. Whenever possible, I usually side steps before a pull and I see strike back proc like crazy. Are there aoe threat issues with your build? I only tank when we're desperate or it's a magic heavy mob and can see yours being better.

  7. #7
    Fofum
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    Default Re: Tank

    I used to have trouble with AE threat, until 1.2 when they buffed Rift Disturbance. I have no issues anymore really, with mages doing 3k+ DPS. Though, we generally have at least one sabo using incriminate on the pull, and I have Noxious Maul.

    Basically you just gotta use Rift Disturbance the second it comes up, every time, and constantly tab through targets spamming Planar Strike. Use Planar Switch when it's up so that you can hit 2 targets with planar each and get a 5pt off. Make sure Guarded Steel is up before the 2nd Rift Disturbance and stays up for the threat boost.

    If you can survive easily without the Phantom Blow 6% absorb buff, then forget it and just spam Planar Strike on everything you can target, as it does significantly more threat than Phantom does.

    It's nowhere near as good as the broken-as-hell AE threat rotation available to warriors right now, but it works well enough.

    And just always be prepared to taunt if someone peels something. It will still happen occasionally if a mage blows their load too early, just gotta be quick about picking it back up before it hits them.

    You might also want to try to get the screaming stormshard from air raid rifts. It procs AE threat pretty frequently and actually makes a big difference. I used that until the RD buff in 1.2 and noticed it helping quite a bit.

    In 1.3, melee threat threshold is now 130%, the same as ranged, so AE threat is easier.

  8. #8
    Shufflin' Errday
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    Default Re: Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskiab View Post
    For T2s, I think this is the best build. I'd use this one up until you raid:

    Soul Tree Calculator: Riftstalker (51) / Bladedancer (8) / Bard (7) :: Rift :: ZAM

    Anthem of glory is useless in raids because archon provides an armor buff, but I've found people don't play archon in T2s so I think you'd be nuts if you don't pick it up.



    For rape status physical damage I'd just switch to a warrior. They've been beefed up and I've found they take a lot less physical damage. Since release warriors have been slowly beefed up and it's quite a difference now.

    I've thought about using the build you posted but what holds me back is a potential loss in aoe threat. Do you have issues? My concern was the loss of the combination of strike back, side steps and quick reflexes. Whenever possible, I usually side steps before a pull and I see strike back proc like crazy. Are there aoe threat issues with your build? I only tank when we're desperate or it's a magic heavy mob and can see yours being better.
    Macros & Cast orders?

  9. #9
    Player versus Tard
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    Default Re: Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Prugor View Post
    Macros & Cast orders?
    I use pretty much the same as below, the only difference is I have an aoe macro:

    #show Planar Strike
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Reprisal
    cast rift disturbance
    cast Planar Strike

    Get to 3 combo points asap and apply your damage aborbtion finisher. Prioritze maintaining it above the other finishers, and cycle targets instead of twin strike. Use annihilate finisher or whatever it`s called when all your buffs are up. Note the damage absorbtion doesn`t last as long as the other finishers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Viafuyo View Post
    The only macros I use:

    #show Phantom Blow
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Reprisal
    cast Phantom Blow

    #show Planar Strike
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Reprisal
    cast Planar Strike

    #show Twin Strike
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Reprisal
    cast Twin Strike

  10. #10
    Shufflin' Errday
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    Default Re: Tank

    Fantastic, thank you.

    I bought my fifth role and tossed a tank build in it. The other roles are 3x dps, two melee and one ranged, and a 51 bard. I really don't use the bard unless the healer blows goats and the only time I use it is when I soulwalk to rez the group, cast the two heals and verse of joy to get the hp/energy rolling.

    I'll probably just use this to solo farm areas in stillmoor and shimmersand. I haven't gotten many powerful tank gear yet, just the ae greater essense and basic blues.

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