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  1. #1
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    Default A question regarding proc essences and AP vs. crit...

    Why is it that the greaters Mortuous Shadeshard and Crystallized Vampire Blood get scoffed at so easily? As I was contemplating whether or not to stack crit or AP in my source machine, I began to wonder about those two greaters. I had simply gone along with what others had said and assumed they were bad. But had anyone actually done any testing on the issue? I decided to give them a test myself, since I had also planned on testing an AP machine vs a crit machine.

    At first, I wondered how I could test them. My crit machine had 6 crit lessers, and my planned AP machine would only have 4 lessers and then the 2 greaters. From my crit machine I get : 75 str, 113 dex, 159 crit. That's 64 AP and 272 crit, based on the math of 1str = .5 AP and 1 dex = 1 crit and .5 AP, which can be confirmed via the character window.

    My AP machine would give me 63 str, 80 dex, and 40 AP. That's a total of 111 AP (the game rounds odd numbers down, so dex + str would equal 143, which divided by 2 would round down to 71) and 80 crit. Keep in mind that the machine also has those 2 greaters in it.

    For my first parse, I was using my crit machine. Everything else remained the exact same.



    My stats were, just for verification:



    For my second parse, I used my AP machine, which also had the 2 greaters in it. Everything else remained the same.



    And my stats were:



    Now, the question I have is this. How is it, if those greaters are so bad, that they accounted for 20 of my total DPS? Do we know exactly how much DPS we gain from the lesser essences? My thought process is this: If I was able to parse higher, even if only by a few DPS, with 4 AP essences and 2 proc greaters, would 6 AP essences net me even more? Or are the 2 greaters actually helping me because the AP essences aren't as good as the crit essences? Obviously this testing would have been a little more sound if I had been able to create 2 crit machines and 2 AP machines, one of each using the 2 greaters, to determine how much DPS they either gained or lost for me. Another question I had was whether or not procs would scale in raids due to debuffs and whatnot, netting me even more total DPS.

    Another discussion is this. Look at my top hits for Spike Charge and Shrapnel Charge. Notice how the difference between the two has Spike and Shrap hitting harder when I had more AP. Obviously, this makes sense, since having more crit doesn't actually add to the top end damage, but AP does. The major question I had going into AP stacking is whether or not AP is even good for a Sab, since there isn't actually any hard evidence or math showing you how AP affects charge damage. If you look at the high hits, the difference in damage is negligible, a whopping 9 for Spike Charge and 8 for Shrapnel. Heck, if you look at the low hits, Shrap hit lower with more AP than with stacked crit.

    Those numbers seem negligible, but keep in mind, through all this, I'm using those 2 greaters. If I had been using 2 AP lessers instead, what would the disparity have been like? I'd have seen higher hits, but I would have lost the 20 DPS from those procs.

    I'm going to test out the AP/proc machine in raids this week, to see how the procs work in raids, how the loss of crit affects me (which I don't think it will tbh) and how the gain in AP affects me.

    If anyone else has done similar testing, please feel free to share your info here. I know this is kind of a TL;DR, and I was even rambling at some points, but the discussion of AP vs. crit and procs vs. raw stats has been bugging me for a while.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: A question regarding proc essences and AP vs. crit...

    Well I figured out how to calculate the DPS of each lesser lol, just parse w/o it, then parse w/ it. Each lesser on my crit machine came out to about 25 DPS per, which is more than those greaters are giving me, so I guess I answered my own question :/

  3. #3
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    Default Re: A question regarding proc essences and AP vs. crit...

    I'd also like to add, for sab crit > ap. It's not a huge difference, but there's still a difference.

    I go dex > crit > ap but use the best items available.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: A question regarding proc essences and AP vs. crit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskiab View Post
    I'd also like to add, for sab crit > ap. It's not a huge difference, but there's still a difference.

    I go dex > crit > ap but use the best items available.

    In 1.4 I think for my sab with the caps will be going more towards AP since I am at the soft cap of 45% self buffed now.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: A question regarding proc essences and AP vs. crit...

    Yeah crit is better for sabs atm, but after 1.4, like the poster above me said, there will be a soft cap on crit of 45 % and a hard cap of 60 %. With my AP machine on, I'm at 45%, and in raids I'm right around 55-60, so I imagine stacking AP will be necessary even if it doesn't scale as well with sabs.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: A question regarding proc essences and AP vs. crit...

    since the mortuous scales with weapon dmg it should be better than a lesser once you get a HK weapon. That is until they release the next teir of rift content or where ever they are putting the next lessers.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #7
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    Default Re: A question regarding proc essences and AP vs. crit...

    Wow, a crit cap will throw optimizing builds up in the air. Right now with T2 raid gear it's 60% self buffed... I'm at 40 something self buffed crit right now, so what about assassin and ranger crit % buffs? Will they become useless.

    Haven't read the 1.4 patch notes yet, I'll have to give them a read. I can't access the main forums from work.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: A question regarding proc essences and AP vs. crit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskiab View Post
    Wow, a crit cap will throw optimizing builds up in the air. Right now with T2 raid gear it's 60% self buffed... I'm at 40 something self buffed crit right now, so what about assassin and ranger crit % buffs? Will they become useless.

    Haven't read the 1.4 patch notes yet, I'll have to give them a read. I can't access the main forums from work.
    It's fine it doesn't include any mods so archon buff still stacks as well ect. Basically you can get 60 hard cap just from gear and the other 40% can come from mods.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: A question regarding proc essences and AP vs. crit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadili View Post
    It's fine it doesn't include any mods so archon buff still stacks as well ect. Basically you can get 60 hard cap just from gear and the other 40% can come from mods.
    idt you will be able to get 60 from gear since you will start seeing diminishing returns at 45%. I have no idea how it will work, but like every 5 %, you could see a 20 or 25% reduced effectiveness of physical crit > crit % or dex > crit %

  10. #10
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    Default Re: A question regarding proc essences and AP vs. crit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Areaz77 View Post
    idt you will be able to get 60 from gear since you will start seeing diminishing returns at 45%. I have no idea how it will work, but like every 5 %, you could see a 20 or 25% reduced effectiveness of physical crit > crit % or dex > crit %
    Yeah I don't see getting 60 being easy at all from gear at least until we have a level cap increase or another tier of raiding beyond HK.

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