Giralus

Heya all to start this isn't an SK's are broken or an Sk's need a revamp thread, i believe the class is great but a few thing's may/may not need a minor tweak to bring up that ability or 2 up to where it should be. I have seen thread's on other class forums that are well presented ,and are debated back and forth and the players come to a conclusion of things that are confirmed to be an issue and some of them have been addressed, i think sk's deserve no less.

(please try to add as much info as you can why you thing said skill needs a tweak/looked into and not just " This is broken FIX IT")


Ok to start with Syphon Hate,
Does this skill conflict with other classes? have noticed numerous times with an assasin that if i have Syphon hate off things go fine, but if i put Syphon on suddenly i can have agro bouncing all over raid or group when im tanking ,
i have tested this with an assasin that i have played with since release in a 2 group setting and agro goes wonky occasionaly with syphon on, also have had it happen in raids when i have assasin in group,
also i dou group with a wizzy friend and i never have issue's with agro with them, except when i have syphon hate on and the wizard has (need to look up name of wizzy skill ) same issue as with assasin, i suddenly have agro issue's sporadicly
lastly i don't notice any differance with Syphon hate on or off besides when i have issue's with agro bouncing around when it's on, weather im in the mage group in a raid,OT, or MT i can't feel or sense any differance in agro control with Syphon hate on, i think the hate need's to be increased to 8 or 10 % to be inline with other tank's agro abilities (not giong to go into specifics about other tanks agro tools but other's can draw comparisons if they like)

Death March , seem's to have lost it's Snap agro 50 % of the time, to many instances lately to even list all of the occasions where DM has failed to get agro, in dou groups.groups,and raids , and even DM + DT fails alot of the time, haveing to cast DM+HT+Rescue doesn't seem to be working as intended and that only helps for single target's, on multiple targets if Dm fails then we in trouble : ) ( again not going into all the other tanks agro abilities but i think DM needs to be tweaked up to keep it even with others in it's Snap agro ability especialy on Mulitple targets )

Ramone

I agree about DM, in small groups and full groups. Was in CMM today and had DM fail 1/3 of the time. I have it am M1 as well.

It feels like it's lost it's edge.

Kadoer

I think the siphon hate is fine. I have not noticed anything out of the ordinary with this, thats not to say their isnt an issue. In single groups, for instance maidens, I have gone in and cleared the isntance without a hate xfer with group clearing 10k dps. On same side a swash or assasin or both and still I have no issues. Ive always wondered if the hate xfer of 3% per person in group stacks with to cap other xfers, or gain, or if its on top of reguardless of other xfers. This would be nice for a dev to answer once and for all.

Death march has slacked up quite a bit compared to last tier in how it appears to work. Honestly Im more apt to use it up on the front end of a fight than later I would be on the fence with them buffing this, as to me with master taunts, buffs, and slam aggro as mt hasnt been an issue yet. Death march did get an +int boost although if anyone noticed to 180 or so at m1. If they want to buff it I wont argue, but I think its ok where it is. With reduced timers and a smart build you should be ok with aggro.

Doomjudge

maybe devs wanted sk's to be utility+dps now so DM losing hate was intentional you never know ..

only situations I have found siphon hate "not working" is small grps .. in full grps when I get 5 ppl's hate it helps .. tho I wouldn't mind getting it up to 10% or so ..so far only with 2hander + off stance I've been able to keep agro without transfers .. some x2 raids worked fine on full defense 1h+shield .. only touch and rescue needed when someone was lifeburning

Giralus

another thing with combining Syphon hate and DM , befor i had syphon hate i use to only be able to cast death march in a raid when the mob was between 10 to 20 % health give or take without getting agro most of the time

now that i have more aa's and have once again took syphon hate AA i would assume that my Hate would have seriously increased to atleast put me back to having to hold off on DM until a mob is at 20 % health , but i can cast despoil,taunt,ae tuant,all dots,then cast DM+DT when mob is at about 80 % health and im giong full out dps and still not pull agro 80% of the time.

another thing i have tried is running instances with the same group of friends, same group make up diong the zone with syphon hate on and syphon hate off, i don't see or feel a diffrence personaly , with or without it on i don't see any differance in agro control , i personaly feel if i dont have 3% of 5 other people hate then that should be a very noticable differance . using amends as an example i think there would be a very very noticable differance if it was on or off, and not a negligable differance to the point of losing agro 3 times instead of 4 and even then you still couldn't account that to syphon hate becuase there are so many variables of why you lost agro 3 times in a run and not 4

if anyone else could make similar runs with same group make up with Syphon on and off and relay if they notice a significant differance , non whatso ever , or if they notice agro bounced around a bit more then normal would be appreciated

i also think there should be Gear/Item's in-game that specificly increase Lifetaps . i assume Lifetaps are increased thru intell as part of our spell damage, but since that cap's out we can't raise our lifetaps seperatly, in this vien then there shouldn't be gear that has +Heals on it as wisdom should be the only thing that increases Heal amount, Increasing wisdom already adds to Heal amount+Resist's so its a double bonus already then add to that +heals on item's, shadowknights generaly don't have High wisdom so we are at a disadvantage there becuase our resists all around are generaly lower then other plate tanks , normaly SK's go for Sta=Intel first then Str=Aviod second and wisdom last when chosing stats add to that we generaly tank in Offensive stance and our Lifetaps become very important but we have no other ways to increase there potential.

Vinladia

Death March - I have to kind of agree but not totally. I pretty much tank or OT every raid that my guild goes on now, and always tank in single groups. DM still seems to have a lot of its pull it used to. But I do remember in KoS, when I was an OT or DPS, when I would DM at the beginning, middle or end of a fight would almost guarentee that the I would pull agro off the MT. That doesnt happen anymore. That could also be because of the hate transferrs increased DPS and the MT's increase in DPS. It may just take more to get more sort to speak.

Siphon Hate - I would also like a Dev to comment on this spell and tell us how it truely works. Does this further increase our hate transferr from our assasins and swashies? Or does this mute 3%? Or possibly even kick 3% back at the assasin losing 6% hate overall for us?

Tanking in general - As far as tanking in general for an SK, I think a lot of it comes from the overall talent of the player. Being able to react, use the right spells or abilities at the right time, specing out your AP to get the most out of the things that will either keep agro or keep you alive, Siphon Hate, DA, etc. There are a LOT of plate tanking items and jewerly out there that have + spell dmg, this will increase our dps and lifetaps which all help us tank. If you are lucky enough to get that gear, tanking as an SK shouldn't be that bad.

Side Note - Have they ever mentioned changing the cap on deminishing returns for stats? This is gimping every class not just us.

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Deule

Well the DM issue could be because it is still generating the same amount of hate while everything else has gone up. Have people doing way more dps which equals more hate so if DM isn't a % hate increaser it would start to lag behind like it seems to be doing.

Lopann

Meh even in EoF the DM "Aura Effect" wore off...

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Lopann======================Eggshin

Naldir

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Giralus

Syphon hate says " 3% of groups Current hate" so i have been tryin to cast Syphon and then DM , and Dm then Syphon to see if it instantly transfering 3% of the groups current hate , Fail , no differance in regaining agro (sometimes death march cast first got agro back befor i used syphon, but the times DM didnt get it back and then i cast syphon it didnt pull agro back , same with casting syphon first and dm second sometimes i got agro sommetimes i didnt)

death march i think they could up the initial agro created from its use , and leave any other procs from it at its current state. dont always get it to proc in raids after the initial use anyway, and most raid trash/mobs are single target.


would also like to add from Pitty's post, Innoruuk's Carress

Master 1 "when target takes Melle damge this spell casts caress feedback on attacker "
increase threat by 154, and deals a Wopping 63 disease dmg on target !

and as stated by Lopann the upgrade from T7 to T8 adds " 1 " point of damage !

i think it should be changed to " When target takes Any damage" and the threat should be Increased a bit and the damage should be increased ALOT

as said Most Sk's tank in Offensive becuase we have to put out as much dps as possible to hold agro, and its skills like the above that is the reason for our agro issue's , 154 hate at level 80 is a joke. should be more like 600 hate(since there are Weopons in the game that proc 600 hate its sad that a weopon has 6-times better hate proc then a class ability )