Crusader Question asked to Devs. - Page 2

Pitty · 04-28-2008, 01:26 AM

I'm not the best SK by far, there are others out there that parse higher and tank better. this is just a recent snip of VP..

Shade of Kalan Dar tanking

Like i said theres nothing fucking wrong with our class.. i wont say no to improvements though, if your all going on a crusade to improve us.

I did scream for more dps a month ago, but after re evaluating my gear and tactics, to take a more melee orientated approach, we can do ok.

shadowgeist · 04-28-2008, 09:05 AM

All that parse shows me is that your guardian either died on the pull or just plain sucks.
Also, what are you wearing for gear? Very few Shadowknights have the tenure and get first dibs on the gear you're taking from SoH and VP.
I'd be castrated if I took some of the DPS gear you've gotten so far, ahead of other dps classes.
Are you 2h or 1h?
And please show us your DPS parse while you were tanking also, so you can understand our main complaint. We can dps or we can tank, but we can't do both in the same fight (well).

With my mythical I'm able to get rid of Divine Aura at least to gain some more aa and dps functionality, but how many of us really have our mythical? Isn't asking a class to be almost completely endgame JUST to be MEDIOCRE a tad ridiculous?

Pitty · 04-28-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

All that parse shows me is that your guardian either died on the pull or just plain sucks.

No that wouldve just been a low parse for him, for some reason or another, he usually parses about 3.0-3.6, yep he usually parses the same as me and yes he is in defensive, but remember how many raid buffs he has on him as well.

Quote:

Also, what are you wearing for gear? Very few Shadowknights have the tenure and get first dibs on the gear you're taking from SoH and VP.

DPS gear
Barbute of apathetic (first class peice)
cloak of woven leaves (adds nothing to dps)
battleguard of attrebe (common drop)
mantle of jasarth (group zone)
Impalers plate leggings (group zone)
Honorbound vambraces (semi rare from PR)
Tramplers boots (PR)
Pristine incarnadine devout gauntlets (player made)
chickenfoot and wishbone (player crafted)
Azvlus wymblus belt of station (PR)
Talisman of thuuga (quested)
Shuddering earring (rare drop from SOH)
Sarshank earring of jade (legendary)
ring of bastion (cant remember)
signet of betrayal (SOH)
Protectors links (VP)
dark knights wristwrap (common drop)
Iztapas devotion (PR)
Doombringer pendulum (VP.. my baby!)

So thats not much gear at all from higher end zones

Quote:

I'd be castrated if I took some of the DPS gear you've gotten so far, ahead of other dps classes.

I dont see much gear other classes would wear apart from a few SOH items

Quote:

Are you 2h or 1h?

2h

Quote:

And please show us your DPS parse while you were tanking also, so you can understand our main complaint. We can dps or we can tank, but we can't do both in the same fight (well).

hmm ok ill get back to you with a parse

Quote:

but how many of us really have our mythical? Isn't asking a class to be almost completely endgame JUST to be MEDIOCRE a tad ridiculous?

i dont use mythical for dps, i use it for tanking, and well i dont really expect to have super high dps while tanking.. even though the guards do

I dont disagree that we loose alot of dps while tanking (probably about 1/3rd)

For me its either 1 or the other, if im not tanking i go full offensive and switch gear and stances with macros accordingly. If by some chance i have to pick up the mob while in offensive, well all you can really do is hit 3 buttons (stance, sword and shield) and take it from there

Look im not saying were the best guild by a long way, and i never have groups built around me, i get thrown in wherever. so just imagine if the SK was in a group set up just for him, he would pwn

Our ideal group would never happen anyway, because it involves a trouby and a dirge in the same group :P

Meh whatever, im just showing that is it possible to do decent dps, and to tank a mob when required, thats about it, i dont think were gimped as much as people say we are.

Pitty · 04-28-2008, 11:09 AM

ok this is me tanking 25 vp trash mobs, not the best parse meh, im more concerened about surviving against the orange mobs

All in all i consider everything pretty normal.

That 4k dps parse in the first picture isn't an average, it's high by my standards, since i usually do anywhere from 2.8 - 3.8

To summarize: We can tank or we can dps, other classes arent so lucky, and i welcome any improvements as a bonus.

Tyirul · 04-28-2008, 11:18 AM

We can tank or dps on a subpar scale. We are suppose to be the dps tanks. I can withstand not being the most magnificent tank, if I could outdps a guard who was on equal footing with me. As it is, that's not going to happen against a good guard.

The fact is, any person who's played a sk well can reroll to a guardian and be a superstar. That is utter bullshit imo.

Drool · 04-28-2008, 02:41 PM

The 4k parse was probably a high score for you. I have hit 4k a few times too, and we have similar gear. I know it's not the norm for us currently.

The 2300 parse is more on average with where we're at right now. And that is far below where we should be. When I am parsing 2800 in SoH, the Berserker is parsing 4k and the Guardian in defensive is parsing 3k.

Pitty, you are a solid SK -- but seriously we need to be looked at for our viability on raids. Not everyone wants us around, if you are in VP consider yourself one of the lucky ones. It took me over a month to find a raid guild willing to take on a SK. I was asked to betray more times than I can remember.

Istar · 04-28-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitty

Nope i have 1 apothetic helm, 0 demonguard gear and 0 sanctification gear.

My gear is bits and peices from here and there.

We can perform both roles fine, as long as we have the group to compliment our task - i.e tank or dps. Just like any other class in the game needs others to help them perform thier roles.

Toughest mob so far ive tanked is shade of phara dar successfully

Ok so you want proof and parses ? ill post them

Your Missunderstanding my Point.. I don't want parses. To get where we need to be at, is by getting gear far and between the abnormal, Hell the parses shown Up there, I do much better on with DPS gear on.

But my point is. what you stated. You have zero Demonguard, You have zero Santification .. Reasoning why... Is cause the gear is junk, but its allotted over to our Class gear anyway.

In all honesty We realy only need minor tweaking "After" We get to where we are supposed to be in stats... Most of which is extra DMG.. .Cause seriously If a guard is not out DPS ing you, its cause you are better geared then him.. The Base CA/Spell Numbers of us vs. Guards leaves us at doing worse on DPS overall.

But our Relaince on being subjected to use only quest/speacialty gear is to vast... Especialy on Pre Tier 3 raids ... Yes there is more to this game then VP .. Actually I can care less about VP at this time anyway.

We need to be able to tank consistantly, Not .. Ohh we have to wait till we beat the expansion and get our SK's gear up before we can use him to tank .... < That is pathetic.. Our Demonguard suit along with extra bits from other tier zones should have us tanking VP Right now. Soh, and VP class gear is the booster that makes progression into the zone easier.

Our numbers can be there. But STR/INT have to be where they should be for this to happen, and Right now in Lower Tiers this is not possible, esp if you actually try to use defensive. and Haveing to make up an SK handicap group is something I dont want to have.... STuff like that feels like im the speacial ed tank that needs extras inable to work lol.

Biggest concern for me right now with getting this changed and looked into, is that it will be prepared for next expansion.. RoK is a done deal.. Its not going to change ultimately.. But For god sake I want to be able to look forward to Class sets in the next expansion, and not have to pick apart each and every gear we get just be somewhere close to tanking like a guard ...

Cruros Wolfswift · 05-07-2008, 04:23 PM

Well, at least you guys get:

Us warriors get wonderful pieces such as:

Jealous? I know, right. Don't forget, if we get three pieces of that set, we get an additional 300ish mental damage to the direct target of our taunts! Sadly, I cannot remember the last time I actually taunted...

I would say, by and far, they really ought to look at all of these subclass set bonuses, and possibly at least add something worth wearing them other than for individual item bonuses.

I have a pally that I drag along on our raids, he can tank alright, he can heal okay, but his output sucks unless he's using his 2hander. I've banned SKs from my raids, because due to previous experiences, they were not able to tank, dps, or heal. I'm not saying that none of you can, and that there aren't well-played SKs out there, but I think there are quite a few that are not played well. I would assume with crusaders, quite similarly to brawlers, it is difficult to get your foot in the door for loot, assuming you can even get into raids, unless you're the one actually tanking.

Istar · 05-07-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruros Wolfswift

Well, at least you guys get:

Us warriors get wonderful pieces such as:

Jealous? I know, right. Don't forget, if we get three pieces of that set, we get an additional 300ish mental damage to the direct target of our taunts! Sadly, I cannot remember the last time I actually taunted...

I would say, by and far, they really ought to look at all of these subclass set bonuses, and possibly at least add something worth wearing them other than for individual item bonuses.

I have a pally that I drag along on our raids, he can tank alright, he can heal okay, but his output sucks unless he's using his 2hander. I've banned SKs from my raids, because due to previous experiences, they were not able to tank, dps, or heal. I'm not saying that none of you can, and that there aren't well-played SKs out there, but I think there are quite a few that are not played well. I would assume with crusaders, quite similarly to brawlers, it is difficult to get your foot in the door for loot, assuming you can even get into raids, unless you're the one actually tanking.

Jealouse? One of those guantlets dropped, and ofcourse its still not an upgrade to either legendary or MC lol...

Now i do agree with you on, with this on a piece by piece basis. I mean 32str only on Guantlets is horrendous... I look at it as I see why the heck wis is on our guantlets ... But this is do to, we got to make the BP's and Legs have all the dame stats and meanwhile leave the other pieces as trash in comparson... But aside suit by suit basis, Demonguard couldnt hold a candle to wrathbringer suit in its very best day...

Lopann · 05-07-2008, 09:35 PM

Honestly every piece of the demonguard shit is crap (not that bad, but not the best) , nobody would roll with a 6 set...