Raidwide Buff what would be a worthy one ? - Page 2

Azzaroth · 07-26-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kadoer

Coercer = power regen.
even if its a tiny bit of dmg to everyone its more beneficial than 54 str to 5 others vs tiny dmg to raid.

Make sense?

Sorry makes No Sense.
Arguing with "get buffs or power reg from an other class" is not a valid argument for a buff our class will lost. It's still a lost and the power reg from coercer is on top in the moment.

With some gear that I have to +dmg, like the cloak of sol ro, and a couple items this makes most of my single target nukes base dmg for 1k and the long cast wrath 2k, that with crits is nice, add a troub, coercer, and fury and your sitting pretty as a tier2/3 dps.

From what you state i think you play your SK as a dps SK. With the right equipt you can make far more then the 1K and 2 K with the nukes you state. And additional also you can get quite more dps if you use the right weapons from Autoattack (eg. brimstone hammer or Sword of pure valor). Hitting for 2k+ per attack regular tank buffed in a offtank grp. The +90 will not add as much as you maybe think(Hello? it will make your 2000 Dam 2 second nuke make 60 damage more). And honestly it will not make the SK wanted as a DD class.

I do understand why people are crying about this, but its not bad it helps most of us. I have heard that we will get half or most of our strength back in a seperate self buff. If not buy a strength potion the lvl 60 cheapies are like 51str. Or another route is to put more points into your base aa. That would help the folks below 70 with their soloability although I personally dont see it having that much effect being as sk's are the best at solo/group instances as far as tanks go, I mean we heal ourselves alot we have useful aa's to help this. Then when you reach 70 can respec out of the extra str since on most raids you should be in near 600ish -/+ some on str and int and sta for the most part depending on your role and what group. They make +200> to power to make up for this power pool loss as well.

1. I didn't know anything of a additional STR single buff. Maybe Dogmae could be so kind and state if he has seen it on Test. My SK on Test is maybe not high enough.

2.Putting more then the 4 needed AA into Stats is pure nonsens.
And again pointing to other ressorce you can use normaly additional is no argument. (Btw From the green potions you only can use one at a Time. STR INT or STA. And i dont see STR to be the best pick.)

I see the +raidwide dmgbuff being moreuseful than 54 str for 6 people. And if Im right and we get back some of the str in a self buff then I dont see anyone complaining. The fact is Id rather have a zerk in group for str buff than sk.

This change is pointed toward making fighter classes more welcome on raid. Giving one class a highly wanted add like 15% spell haste or kind of 16% Haste buff. And the crusader classes a +90 bulshit that every one who has done the math laughs at or calls broken.
(There are more then one thread one this board where its discussed how awful this mechanism work, and more then one HC guild raidleader that states this ability is worthless. Take a look around for example here. http://www.eq2flames.com/combat-disc...ide-buffs.html )

It is good though we are all discussing this at this point cause if we can get something better than 90dmg Ill take it dont get me wrong.
Personally Id like to see it be +120dmg at the m1 level.

I don't want something uber or better then the other buffs of the other fighters for the crusader Classes but I want something usefull and i state out again +90 nobodywantsthis is NOT. Make it a +x% to Spelldamage and I am with you

To End this i would like to point put this thread was started as a brainstorm to find something that is usefull but not overpowered as an alternative suggestion to the devs. And not discussing why the + xx mechanism iss worthless in its current form.

Kadoer · 07-26-2007, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Kadoer

Coercer = power regen.
even if its a tiny bit of dmg to everyone its more beneficial than 54 str to 5 others vs tiny dmg to raid.

Make sense?

Sorry makes No Sense.
Arguing with "get buffs or power reg from an other class" is not a valid argument for a buff our class will lost. It's still a lost and the power reg from coercer is on top in the moment.

54 str= how much power. 54 str= how much of your dps and you groups dps. +90dmg to raid spell dmg = alot more than both. I agree we should get something better but given how things usually work Ill take the 90 dmg.

With some gear that I have to +dmg, like the cloak of sol ro, and a couple items this makes most of my single target nukes base dmg for 1k and the long cast wrath 2k, that with crits is nice, add a troub, coercer, and fury and your sitting pretty as a tier2/3 dps.

From what you state i think you play your SK as a dps SK. With the right equipt you can make far more then the 1K and 2 K with the nukes you state. And additional also you can get quite more dps if you use the right weapons from Autoattack (eg. brimstone hammer or Sword of pure valor). Hitting for 2k+ per attack regular tank buffed in a offtank grp. The +90 will not add as much as you maybe think(Hello? it will make your 2000 Dam 2 second nuke make 60 damage more). And honestly it will not make the SK wanted as a DD class.

at the moment im playing my sk more of a tank than a dps and am wearing not so great dps gear. i find it amusing your quoting high end weapons here ie the sword of pure valor and your upset about losing the 54 str arent you over the diminishing returns? and sks shouldnt be wanted as a dd class we are tanks i wont go down the road of that mess since its not what this topic is about. if your not making an arguement to keep the 54 str then I apoligize since I thought that was what 99% of all the threads Ive read say wah wah im losing 54str.

I do understand why people are crying about this, but its not bad it helps most of us. I have heard that we will get half or most of our strength back in a seperate self buff. If not buy a strength potion the lvl 60 cheapies are like 51str. Or another route is to put more points into your base aa. That would help the folks below 70 with their soloability although I personally dont see it having that much effect being as sk's are the best at solo/group instances as far as tanks go, I mean we heal ourselves alot we have useful aa's to help this. Then when you reach 70 can respec out of the extra str since on most raids you should be in near 600ish -/+ some on str and int and sta for the most part depending on your role and what group. They make +200> to power to make up for this power pool loss as well.

1. I didn't know anything of a additional STR single buff. Maybe Dogmae could be so kind and state if he has seen it on Test. My SK on Test is maybe not high enough.

I think i read about that on the pally soe forums so im not sure but it seems it was quoted from somewhere else as well. these changes are slated as far as I can tell for gu 38 and not gu 37 which means we have a little time.

2.Putting more then the 4 needed AA into Stats is pure nonsens.
And again pointing to other ressorce you can use normaly additional is no argument. (Btw From the green potions you only can use one at a Time. STR INT or STA. And i dont see STR to be the best pick.)

I totally agree. but for those that cant otherwise live without it , its an option. I agree with potions for the most part ive been uing the +hp on aids to help myself or +int since im not able to wear my dps

I see the +raidwide dmgbuff being moreuseful than 54 str for 6 people. And if Im right and we get back some of the str in a self buff then I dont see anyone complaining. The fact is Id rather have a zerk in group for str buff than sk.

This change is pointed toward making fighter classes more welcome on raid. Giving one class a highly wanted add like 15% spell haste or kind of 16% Haste buff. And the crusader classes a +90 bulshit that every one who has done the math laughs at or calls broken.
(There are more then one thread one this board where its discussed how awful this mechanism work, and more then one HC guild raidleader that states this ability is worthless. Take a look around for example here. http://www.eq2flames.com/combat-disc...ide-buffs.html )

I personally dont think fighters should be more welcomed than they are on a raid this is what alts are for. thats another arguement and i wont go into it in this thread. I agree our raidwide buff should be better than +90 dmg but considering how things have happened in the past if thats what we get and nothing worse then we are lucky. I still think if you crunch the numbers that +90 dmg to raidwide spells vs 54 str for your group, zonewide the +90 dmg is making more dps than the 54 str which is how i think the dev's are looking at it.

It is good though we are all discussing this at this point cause if we can get something better than 90dmg Ill take it dont get me wrong.
Personally Id like to see it be +120dmg at the m1 level.

I don't want something uber or better then the other buffs of the other fighters for the crusader Classes but I want something usefull and i state out again +90 nobodywantsthis is NOT. Make it a +x% to Spelldamage and I am with you

I agree with you here and it is the first realistic suggestion ive read that could be implemented easily. I would vote for +% over +dmg but I wonder if what the dev's would give us in % would = to or be better than +dmg. I think we could get away with +2% at m1 level. Could work like this:

app 1 .5%
app 2 .75%
app 4 1%
adept 1 1.5%
adept 3 1.75%
master 1/2 2%

That actually works out quite nicely and I applaude you for coming up with the original idea for that.

Dogmae · 07-26-2007, 12:38 PM

I always find it funny when people decide to post numbers for what they want to see in future changes. Post ideas and leave the numbers to the Devs, because I guarantee they don't care what you think the number should be, they will go with whatever their program says is balanced.

Anyways as I said before +90 Spell damage is crap. How this is normalized (assuming it is just like all other + damage) is crap for DoT classes. Now losing the 54STR isn't a big deal either, but we need something more usefull then this.

Ideas for good shit.

The Spellhaste monks get would own, Spell crits wouldnt be bad, %increase to base spell damage is another good idea.

Basically if the raidwide buffs stay like their current forms (and I doubt they will), then SKs will not be any more wanted in a raid then they are now, and Monks will move up a few steps in their usefullness.

Kadoer · 07-26-2007, 12:43 PM

eh merely posting numbers based off what we already have if they give us 2% at the bottom of the wis line to group, id bet 2% raidwide is a good guess. Was merely visualizing it.

jarva · 07-27-2007, 07:52 AM

How about a Siphon Hate/Amends feature to the buff? Similar to our Siphon Hate AA?

Elamshinae · 07-27-2007, 01:54 PM

Paladins had their lost STR added to their self buff Blessing of the Reverent. I assume SKs were meant to have it added to Nefarious Caress, but as of right now it hasn't been.

Pitty · 07-28-2007, 03:20 AM

fuck this shit - still no love

i've been saying it for ages now, we need a raid wide death march :P

Lopann · 07-28-2007, 04:45 AM

Death March, a 30 second buff, would actualy make us a real asset to raids, for dps groups, because atm there are classes that can do everything we do, better than us... the beauty of an sk is we are good in a pinch, jack of all trades kind of thing, but imo changing DM to 30 seconds would greatly raise our benefit to a raid.

Also possibly a group Siphon Avioadance, on our servers (im sure others aswell) our AV will never be as high as most other tank classes, which means we get hit more often than every other tank, mind you Divine Aura helps, aswell as some other minor things, but those two things (DM and our AV) need improvement above anything else imo, people who complain about hate idk what they are doing wrong, i can usualy pull/peel agro when i want to (if im not stunned/stifled) and if im tanking, i have no problem pulling and keeping agro onto me.

Dekeon · 07-28-2007, 02:39 PM

I don't know about that avoid thing. I am personally low on HP in comparison to other SKs, but then again I am a 1/2 elf and not a ogre. My avoid currently is 9261 in a group so my parry buff is up and with a agi potion. I am speced down str for full hate and sta for full HP. If I do tank on a raid normally I see 10.5 or more on my avoid so I dump something for more stats or resists.

I will take anything though. We currently use a guard for mt and a zerker for ot. I am normally in the raid, but I am just there for dps or to pick something up and hold it until they get the MT back up. My hate is not a issue.

It comes down to this. Raid leaders see 3 things. DPS, as small a number of healers as can keep the tank up, and more DPS.

Give us something so we can really DPS or make our buffs better so we are wanted on raids. 30 Second DM without the procs is a good idea. We know how to wait untill the mob is debuffed and the tank has good agro before we cast it anyhow. The raid wide buff may help. My raid leaders are smart enough to see that +90 to spell damage is a DECENT buff. It is not mind blowing. Spell haste or a crit chance raid wide would be HUGE.

I will just do what I always do. Bitch and roll with it.

Peace

Lopann · 07-28-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dekeon

I don't know about that avoid thing. I am personally low on HP in comparison to other SKs, but then again I am a 1/2 elf and not a ogre. My avoid currently is 9261 in a group so my parry buff is up and with a agi potion. I am speced down str for full hate and sta for full HP. If I do tank on a raid normally I see 10.5 or more on my avoid so I dump something for more stats or resists.

I will take anything though. We currently use a guard for mt and a zerker for ot. I am normally in the raid, but I am just there for dps or to pick something up and hold it until they get the MT back up. My hate is not a issue.

It comes down to this. Raid leaders see 3 things. DPS, as small a number of healers as can keep the tank up, and more DPS.

Give us something so we can really DPS or make our buffs better so we are wanted on raids. 30 Second DM without the procs is a good idea. We know how to wait untill the mob is debuffed and the tank has good agro before we cast it anyhow. The raid wide buff may help. My raid leaders are smart enough to see that +90 to spell damage is a DECENT buff. It is not mind blowing. Spell haste or a crit chance raid wide would be HUGE.

I will just do what I always do. Bitch and roll with it.

Peace

Meh depends on AA for HP, im a woodelf and have highest hp for sk on my server at like 9.4k or so, my av group buffed, and raidbuffed is comparably less though to a guardian (big difference) in the same groups. selfbuffed im only sitting at 35% av though, so i think i just made a trade off between hp and av, not sure it makes entirely too much of a difference.