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  1. #1631
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    Default Re: Get to Know Your Candidates Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundaarr View Post
    No we have a safety net, but there are many conservatives now that are doing everything they can to dismantle it.
    Just stop. no they're not. At best, there are conservatives trying to kick out the people who use it as a hammock.
    It's only weird if it doesn't work.

  2. #1632
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    Default Re: Get to Know Your Candidates Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss View Post
    Just stop. no they're not. At best, there are conservatives trying to kick out the people who use it as a hammock.
    No I'm all for the checks and balances in place. You know contrary to popular belief you can't just be on welfare forever. Or at least not in my state. You either are
    a) seriously disabled in which case you must go to like social security, the federal program, in order to get long term care
    b) need temporary help, which just like anything temporary, run out after a period of time

    The instances of people using public benefits for a hammock are not as common as you'd think. Does it happen? Yes, but while you can fight against that, the solution isn't always to privatize, get rid of, or make broad cuts.

    The move to vouchers for everything to health care just disturbs me. I see it as being bought and paid for by the institutions that stand to benefit the very most from these voucher programs. The same with the private prison industry. We have laws right now on the books in states that are pretty much written by a corporation in order to get more business for themselves, and at the expense of the taxpayer. If we're paying for it either way, give me an organization that at least isn't motivated by profit.

  3. #1633
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    Default Re: Get to Know Your Candidates Thread

    I agree you can't stay on it forever. for instance, with unemployment, you have to get a job periodically for a month or two before you can restart the benefits. But other forms are easier to stay on indefinitely. EIC, food stamps. As long as you keep having kids and never get a job (that reports taxes) it takes a long time for bennies to run out. I admit I don't know the intricacies of how people scam those systems, so i don't know how long it can be kept up.

    But what you're not getting that that conservatives don't want to end that shit outright. We only want to stop the abuse. the only time talk of ending it outright somes up is when it can't be fixed. Unless you consider social security to be welfare, because a lot of us DO think that ponzi scheme needs to be ended and the perpetrators need to be arrested.
    Last edited by Hoss; 03-28-2012 at 02:40 PM.
    It's only weird if it doesn't work.

  4. #1634
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    Default Re: Get to Know Your Candidates Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss View Post
    Unless you consider social security to be welfare, because a lot of us DO think that ponzi scheme needs to be ended and the perpetrators need to be arrested.
    That's a lie you've been sold. Quite a bit of the "zomg social security costs the government so much" is because for so long social security has been the one department that has had excess cash, which the government then borrowed from itself basically at interest. And now that interest is a big deal from so many times dipping into the coffers. If those loans were forgiven it would lessen the government outlay to social security, but would also fuck the program over to a large extent.

    The only way social security would truly collapse is if population growth stagnated to a large degree, like Italy, combined with increased average lifespan. All the other shit they're selling you is a bill of goods. And if they point out rising health costs, etc... well that is not the fault of the government. At least not in fully.

  5. #1635
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    Default Re: Get to Know Your Candidates Thread

    You need to look up what a ponzi scheme is before you open your cock holster and hold forth on it again. On the plus side, Ponzi's story is very interesting.
    It's only weird if it doesn't work.

  6. #1636
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    Default Re: Get to Know Your Candidates Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss View Post
    You need to look up what a ponzi scheme is before you open your cock holster and hold forth on it again. On the plus side, Ponzi's story is very interesting.
    I know very well what a ponzi scheme is, however this is a system where we know how much money is going in, how much is going out, and where that money is going (except in a few cases such as fraud, which any system that is large enough will have)

    In addition, those in the lower lvl's of a ponzi scheme can never hope to recoup their losses, while social security can be saved. You can believe it can't be all you want, but the fact of the matter is with a few adjustments, such as to entry age and so forth, it can be quite viable for many years to come.

  7. #1637
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    Default Re: Get to Know Your Candidates Thread

    The people who come in last in a ponzi scheme will not get their money back. So you're calling SS valid on the basis that it will never end? You're a dipshit. What a ponzi scheme needs to remain solvent is exponential growth. If at any time you don't have more people paying in than people collecting, it falls apart. Look around, that's why the scheme is on the verge of collapse right now. Baby boomers retiring, and they didn't reproduce at the same rate their parents did. Even without Obama's concerted effort to destroy jobs it would be in trouble. Eventually it will end, and the only question is, do you want to kick the can down the road until the last group of people have to be fucked over, or do you want to do the right thing and end it now while its still possible to keep the promises that were made to everyone? Changing the entry age is a chickenshit bitch move because it's altering the promises that were made AND still kicking the can down the road.

    If anyone but the federal government ran this, they'd be in jail by now. Hell, people are in jail right now for running scams that were BETTER than social security, because they didn't force anyone into it the way the government forces us to pay SS.
    It's only weird if it doesn't work.

  8. #1638
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    Default Re: Get to Know Your Candidates Thread

    Well said Hoss!
    Say NO to Government!

  9. #1639
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    Default Re: Get to Know Your Candidates Thread

    What really amazes me is that most people that say that they are involved in political discourse, or know about politics don't see this. It's nothing more than fraud.

  10. #1640
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    Default Re: Get to Know Your Candidates Thread

    The gradual raising of age isn't just "kicking the can". Whether those who have paid in believe they are being cheated or not, the raising of age, combined with other measures, is the only way the program can be saved. I can't believe that so many people believe there is no way for it to be saved. SS doesn't quite require exponential growth, but our population has not declined or had such a lack of growth that the system isn't viable.

    The problems are longer lifespan, less people paying in (due in part obviously to the explosion of illegal immigration/labor since this program was instituted) and people also working longer before choosing to retire.

    Is the system as it currently stands in trouble? Hell yes it is. But reverting it to a voucher system is sure as hell not the answer.

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