Comparing Weapons After Changes:

Snark · 08-18-2007, 03:46 AM

Sorted by DPS at standard delays. Top = Best.

Note: I will be saving this periodically to backup my list. If it seems incomplete, its probably because I'm still working on it. After I have this list done, I will be taking a look at double attack and the new delay penalties to dual wield, to hopefully shed some light on where you might stand to respec after the live update.

Keep in mind these are base values, and depending on your str the DPS values are, in actuality, much higher. However, the relative quality of the weapons is still the same.

As I build the list I am ignoring procs. If I can find a way to fairly calculate how a proc relatively boosts a weapon, I will make those changes.

If you want me to add a weapon, feel free to ask. I would be glad to add anything that is reasonable. The purpose of this list is to help anyone questioning what gear they are looking for with their desired spec.

At 10% Melee Crits:
Clearcutter Machete (148.156, 49.3853 DPS){3s}
Axe of Natural Order (189.077, 47.2692 DPS){4s}
Soulfire Gladius (141.761, 47.254 DPS){3s}
Chel'Drak's Shard (117.482, 46.9926 DPS){2.5s}
Dagger of Purity (187.415, 46.854 DPS){4s}
Bisected Saber (184.673, 46.168 DPS){4s}
Soulfire Sabre (182.633, 45.658 DPS){4s}
Edged Pick of Earthly Might (136.879, 45.626 DPS){3s}
Waning Moon Cutter (70.4322, 44.0201 DPS){1.6s}
Hopeshredder (47.3459, 43.0417 DPS){1.1s}
Rapier of Darkness (85.6903, 42.8451 DPS){2s}
Grinning Dirk of Horror (164.786, 41.1964 DPS){4s}

At 20% Melee Crits:
Clearcutter Machete (156.312, 52.1038 DPS){3s}
Soulfire Gladius (152.022, 50.674 DPS){3s}
Axe of Natural Order (202.653, 50.6633 DPS){4s}
Chel'Drak's Shard (124.963, 49.9852 DPS){2.5s}
Dagger of Purity (199.329, 49.832 DPS){4s}
Soulfire Sabre (195.767, 48.941 DPS){4s}
Edged Pick of Earthly Might (146.759, 48.9195 DPS){3s}
Bisected Saber (194.846, 48.712 DPS){4s}
Waning Moon Cutter (74.3644, 46.4778 DPS){1.6s}
Rapier of Darkness (91.8806, 45.9403 DPS){2s}
Hopeshredder (49.1917, 44.7197 DPS){1.1s}
Grinning Dirk of Horror (178.071, 44.5179 DPS){4s}

At 30% Melee Crits:
Clearcutter Machete (164.467, 54.8224 DPS){3s}
Soulfire Gladius (162.283, 54.094 DPS){3s}
Axe of Natural Order (216.23, 54.0575 DPS){4s}
Chel'Drak's Shard (132.445, 52.9778 DPS){2.5s}
Dagger of Purity (211.244, 52.811 DPS){4s}
Soulfire Sabre (208.9, 52.225 DPS){4s}
Edged Pick of Earthly Might (156.638, 52.2126 DPS){3s}
Bisected Saber (205.02, 51.255 DPS){4s}
Rapier of Darkness (98.0708, 49.0354 DPS){2s}
Waning Moon Cutter (78.2966, 48.9354 DPS){1.6s}
Grinning Dirk of Horror (191.357, 47.8393 DPS){4s}
Hopeshredder (51.0376, 46.3978 DPS){1.1s}

At 40% Melee Crits:
Clearcutter Machete (172.623, 57.541 DPS){3s}
Soulfire Gladius (172.544, 57.5145 DPS){3s}
Axe of Natural Order (229.806, 57.4516 DPS){4s}
Chel'Drak's Shard (139.926, 55.9705 DPS){2.5s}
Dagger of Purity (223.159, 55.789 DPS){4s}
Soulfire Sabre (222.034, 55.508 DPS){4s}
Edged Pick of Earthly Might (166.517, 55.5057 DPS){3s}
Bisected Saber (215.193, 53.798 DPS){4s}
Rapier of Darkness (104.261, 52.1306 DPS){2s}
Waning Moon Cutter (82.2288, 51.393 DPS){1.6s}
Grinning Dirk of Horror (204.643, 51.1607 DPS){4s}
Hopeshredder (52.8834, 48.0758 DPS){1.1s}

At 50% Melee Crits:
Soulfire Gladius (182.805, 60.935 DPS){3s}
Axe of Natural Order (243.383, 60.8458 DPS){4s}
Clearcutter Machete (180.779, 60.2596 DPS){3s}
Chel'Drak's Shard (147.408, 58.9631 DPS){2.5s}
Edged Pick of Earthly Might (176.397, 58.7988 DPS){3s}
Soulfire Sabre (235.167, 58.792 DPS){4s}
Dagger of Purity (235.073, 58.768 DPS){4s}
Bisected Saber (225.366, 56.342 DPS){4s}
Rapier of Darkness (110.451, 55.2257 DPS){2s}
Grinning Dirk of Horror (217.929, 54.4822 DPS){4s}
Waning Moon Cutter (86.161, 53.8506 DPS){1.6s}
Hopeshredder (54.7293, 49.7539 DPS){1.1s}

At 60% Melee Crits:
Soulfire Gladius (193.065, 64.355 DPS){3s}
Axe of Natural Order (256.96, 64.2399 DPS){4s}
Clearcutter Machete (188.935, 62.9782 DPS){3s}
Edged Pick of Earthly Might (186.276, 62.092 DPS){3s}
Soulfire Sabre (248.3, 62.075 DPS){4s}
Chel'Drak's Shard (154.889, 61.9557 DPS){2.5s}
Dagger of Purity (246.988, 61.747 DPS){4s}
Bisected Saber (235.539, 58.885 DPS){4s}
Rapier of Darkness (116.642, 58.3208 DPS){2s}
Grinning Dirk of Horror (231.214, 57.8036 DPS){4s}
Waning Moon Cutter (90.0932, 56.3083 DPS){1.6s}
Hopeshredder (56.5751, 51.4319 DPS){1.1s}

At 70% Melee Crits:
Soulfire Gladius (203.326, 67.775 DPS){3s}
Axe of Natural Order (270.536, 67.6341 DPS){4s}
Clearcutter Machete (197.09, 65.6968 DPS){3s}
Edged Pick of Earthly Might (196.155, 65.3851 DPS){3s}
Soulfire Sabre (261.434, 65.359 DPS){4s}
Chel'Drak's Shard (162.371, 64.9483 DPS){2.5s}
Dagger of Purity (258.903, 64.726 DPS){4s}
Bisected Saber (245.713, 61.428 DPS){4s}
Rapier of Darkness (122.832, 61.416 DPS){2s}
Grinning Dirk of Horror (244.5, 61.125 DPS){4s}
Waning Moon Cutter (94.0254, 58.7659 DPS){1.6s}
Hopeshredder (58.421, 53.11 DPS){1.1s}

At 80% Melee Crits:
Soulfire Gladius (213.587, 71.196 DPS){3s}
Axe of Natural Order (284.113, 71.0282 DPS){4s}
Edged Pick of Earthly Might (206.034, 68.6782 DPS){3s}
Soulfire Sabre (274.567, 68.642 DPS){4s}
Clearcutter Machete (205.246, 68.4154 DPS){3s}
Chel'Drak's Shard (169.852, 67.9409 DPS){2.5s}
Dagger of Purity (270.817, 67.704 DPS){4s}
Rapier of Darkness (129.022, 64.5111 DPS){2s}
Grinning Dirk of Horror (257.786, 64.4465 DPS){4s}
Bisected Saber (255.886, 63.972 DPS){4s}
Waning Moon Cutter (97.9576, 61.2235 DPS){1.6s}
Hopeshredder (60.2668, 54.788 DPS){1.1s}

At 90% Melee Crits:
Soulfire Gladius (223.848, 74.616 DPS){3s}
Axe of Natural Order (297.69, 74.4224 DPS){4s}
Edged Pick of Earthly Might (215.914, 71.9713 DPS){3s}
Soulfire Sabre (287.701, 71.925 DPS){4s}
Clearcutter Machete (213.402, 71.134 DPS){3s}
Chel'Drak's Shard (177.334, 70.9335 DPS){2.5s}
Dagger of Purity (282.732, 70.683 DPS){4s}
Grinning Dirk of Horror (271.072, 67.7679 DPS){4s}
Rapier of Darkness (135.213, 67.6063 DPS){2s}
Bisected Saber (266.059, 66.514 DPS){4s}
Waning Moon Cutter (101.89, 63.6811 DPS){1.6s}
Hopeshredder (62.1127, 56.4661 DPS){1.1s}

At 100% Melee Crits:
Soulfire Gladius (234.109, 78.036 DPS){3s}
Axe of Natural Order (311.266, 77.8165 DPS){4s}
Edged Pick of Earthly Might (225.793, 75.2644 DPS){3s}
Soulfire Sabre (300.834, 75.209 DPS){4s}
Chel'Drak's Shard (184.815, 73.9262 DPS){2.5s}
Clearcutter Machete (221.558, 73.8526 DPS){3s}
Dagger of Purity (294.647, 73.661 DPS){4s}
Grinning Dirk of Horror (284.357, 71.0894 DPS){4s}
Rapier of Darkness (141.403, 70.7014 DPS){2s}
Bisected Saber (276.232, 69.058 DPS){4s}
Waning Moon Cutter (105.822, 66.1388 DPS){1.6s}
Hopeshredder (63.9585, 58.1441 DPS){1.1s}

Speccing:

The increase in dual wield weapon quality has many swashbucklers questioning its viability. After the weapon changes, the mainhand and offhand weapons suffer a delay penalty of 4/3. This means a 4.0 delay weapon will swing at 5.3 delay, and a 3.0 delay weapon will swing at 4.0. What is the deciding factor here, is your double attack.

The WIS line results in a 68% double attack. It is fair to conclude that if you were using the Soulfire Gladius at 30% crits (base 54.1 dps), you would see a 68% increase in damage (90.89 dps).

Now, if a Swashbuckler desired to be dual wield (STR/AGI), they would see no double attack bonus, but they would have the ability to wield two weapons.

Take for example, a swashbuckler that dual wields the Soulfire Gladius and Clearcutter Machete at 30% crits, with (54.1 base dps) and (54.8 base dps) respectively. We would have 108.9 cumulative base DPS, with a 4/3 delay penalty. 108.9/(4/3) results in 81.68dps. Thus, a person who choose dual wield over double attack can expect to see about a 10% reduction in autoattack DPS. When autoattack makes up ~40% of a swashbuckler's parse, a 4% reduction is total DPS can be expected. Note also that the dual wield delay penalties do not change your proc chance (this is a bad thing). You will have a reduction in all procs, like spurious bravado, imbued rings, all item procs, all group procs etc. The tradeoff is to reap the benefits of both STR and AGI lines, which gives you crits, pirate stab, sailwind, and 3 combat arts.(Including TS)

Lets also look at a swashbuckler who has double attack gear, since both weapons benefit from this buff. Lets look at a swashbuckler in a great, but, less than ideal setting. They can expect to have 30% double attack (5% from Mayong Bracers, 5% from Edged Pick, 10% from a bard and 10% from Ring of Tunarian Might).

Let's also assume a swashbuckler in this setting could expect to net around 40% crits.

Clearcutter Machete ((57.54x1.3) + Edged Pick (55.51x1.3))/(4/3)
= 110.22 base DPS. Quite a solid improvement.

A WIS line swashbuckler with the clearcutter + 30% double attack would get 57.54x1.98 = 113.93 DPS. Not too much higher!

Now lets look at the real spoiled rogues, those who benefit from a bard and an illusionist! (+25% DA)

Clearcutter Machete ((57.54x1.55) + Edged Pick (55.51x1.55))/(4/3) =131.42 DPS. This is an almost 15% DPS improvement over a swashbuckler choosing WIS line at 100% double attack.

It is no surprise that the real turning point in dual wield is double attack. The question is, do you have access to these buffs? Can the benefits of both STR and AGI lines outweigh the slight reduction in damage without double attack and the reduction in procs?

It is my hope that they re-evaluate penalizing proc rates for dual wield. This seems to be almost a bug, and one that causes a blanket of undesired effects for rogues.

Thanks for reading and share your input!!

mupp · 08-18-2007, 07:12 AM

great info

question I alwasy wonder is when is it worth changing from agi/wis to str/wis
I have soulfire gladius, I see it performs well the more crits I have, but will the extra crits increase dps over the loss of pirate stab?

Arkarius · 08-18-2007, 08:03 AM

Any chance you could show Dirk of Negativity, Axe of Vampiric Balance, and the Lucanic SoD rewards?

aeeron · 08-18-2007, 01:39 PM

axe of vampric balance can ya test that one out? thanks for this info too btw

motu · 08-18-2007, 03:06 PM

is that sabre after gu38, is it really that low? lol

(seems like the "scout reward" should be a better weapon for dps then the "tank reward")

Arkarius · 08-18-2007, 04:23 PM

Could you explain your numbers here a bit? I think there are other things than crit chance that need to be taken into account before you can rank weapons like that, if that is indeed what you're trying to do here.

Snark · 08-18-2007, 04:26 PM

I just whipped up a quick program that calculated the base DPS of a weapon at certain crit levels. Crit levels are important because depending on where you are it drastically changes what weapons you should be using. Tonight I am going to take a look at procs and seeing if I can include damage ones.

damus · 08-18-2007, 06:49 PM

With Chel'draks shard ranked so high, I wonder how good Folded Scale Blade would be. Add that for me.

Sujen · 08-18-2007, 07:49 PM

I agree with changing the way proc % works. If they are going to screw all the scouts that spent a long time trying to get that 4 sec delay dw weapon for the proc rate, they should make the proc % scale to the new delays while dw.

Dakis · 08-18-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damus

With Chel'draks shard ranked so high, I wonder how good Folded Scale Blade would be. Add that for me.

Folded Scale Blade is shit.