Weapon Delays and CA's - Page 3

Orochan · 12-22-2007, 04:39 PM

Dragoons can't be used as a test because it disables auto attack regardless.

H/E a much simpler test is this. Get a 1sec base delay weapon. Fully haste yourself ( best as you can ) and then do a /weap ( you don't really have too but w/e )

After that attack a mob and spam Ca's, and see how much auto attack you really get in.

It should be much less then what is expected.

Spamming Ca's delay auto's. nuff said, also with how much Swashies depend on auto, I'd much rather "delay" a cheap ass 400-600 damage CA then a 2k-4k Auto attack.

See, it's not what is more logical, but what gives you the most dps.

Edit : I'll actually do this test later and post screens/info. So we can hopefully put this to rest.

preynar · 12-22-2007, 05:31 PM

I'm going to guess that as a wizard that always has a spell casting and one qued up to cast and still getting auto attacks in should be considered a "test"...

Orochan · 12-22-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by preynar

I'm going to guess that as a wizard that always has a spell casting and one qued up to cast and still getting auto attacks in should be considered a "test"...

Having a spell queuded up doesn't prove anything, because Auto attacks get in between queues always ( if the delay is up )

What happens is if your Auto attack is faster then your CA cast/recovery time then you auto get's pushed back behind recovery.

Example :

Cast | Recovery | Auto | Next spell ( queue )

My next post will show a test I just did.

Orochan · 12-22-2007, 06:25 PM

Now First off this isn't a truly 100% accurate test I just threw it together in like 15-20 mins, but it does provide a firm base of what really happens. ( That being recovery slows your auto attack. )

So if I forgot suttin, tell me and I'll gladly retest again.

I tested this against 2 mobs :

Lvl 48 Dune spider

Lvl 47 Dune scarab

Now obviously I didn't want to ruin the test by using t8 CA's so I created a Hot bar with a select few level 40-50 CA's ( all app1 fyi )

The weapon I used was Turadramin's fang ( 1 second base delay ) I don't have the link, but trust me it does pretty crap damage, Also I had a dps mod of 0 and a haste mod of 28.

The haste mod of 28 put me at exactly .8 seconds delay.

Here is a screen.

And yes I had to pay a plat for that fucker.

Neways it's at .8 delay, which matches up PERFECTLY with my CA cast/recovery time ( with sailwind it is .8 obviously ).

The lvl 40-50 CA's I used were Aggravated assault, subdue, gambit, waylay, desperate thrust, concealed blade. Six Ca's Total.

This is the following parse again SPAMMING those 6 CA's. ( the predicted outcome should be approx 12 auto attacks, since I can attack before and after each CA. )

As you can see Each CA only hit once ( aggravated assault is 2 hits, but still one CA ) and I got 13 hits, which is about right. The 13th swing was prolly the last little shred of hp left of the mob after it survived all my CA's.

Now for the other fight, I used the shortbuff deceit ( or w/e the t7 version is called ) Which put me at .6 sec weapon delay.

Screen :

Now if Recovery did not effect auto attack delay at all then the predicted out come would have to be more then 12, because I'm only using 6 CA's for these fights. Nothing else changed except haste.

Parse :

We got 12 hits only for auto attack, which means auto attack was pushed behind recovery time because the weapon was simply too fast for the CA's to keep up with.

So now can we put this rumor to rest?

Recovery does in fact effect auto attack delay.

This is a huge reason why slow weapons are sought after, they are just that much easier to time CA's in between, so they in fact miss less then faster weapons do ( because you don't push as many auto attacks behind recovery as you do with faster weapons. )

However considering this is a swash forum, if you are using inspiration, ignore this whole post ( when it comes to inspiration only), because since inspiration is a 100% proc, you want the fastest weapon possible to have during that 13 seconds.

I posted somewhere before but it's something like if u have a .4 sec delay weapon then you can hit 32 times during inspiration. Not including procs off hurricane.

So basically just have a fast weapon to switch out to for when it's up. Then switch back.

Edit :

Sorry for the big screens lolzzz

Orochan · 12-22-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

( the predicted outcome should be approx 12 auto attacks, since I can attack before and after each CA. )

Ignore that part actually, I found a mistake in my own calcs ! lol

Seems I forgot to take off all my Double attack mods ( I was at 15% iirc ) so That could've and prolly did account for the extra hits. ( it really shouldn't be 12 swings for 6 CA's but rather like 8-10. )

Anyways the outcome should be more or less the same, but I will do more testing later on tonight, right now I got work /sigh.

preynar · 12-22-2007, 07:17 PM

Orochan you're one of the first people I when I came to Befallen and we had some good times but, there is just one little hole in your test. You wouldn't get an attack both before and after, that would give you 2 attacks between CA's for a total of 7 AA. The fight ran 9 seconds both times. 6 CA'a spammed would give you a grand total of 4.8 seconds leaving 4.2 seconds (.8 delay = 5 attacks) 7+5=13

Second one took a little more looking into. 4.2 remaining time should have netted you 7 more auto attacks but you also generated 568 more damage through CA and offensive stance procs. That added damage negated the 2 more auto attacks you might have gotten which you averaged 232 over the two fights.

Shackleton1 · 12-22-2007, 11:18 PM

Ah, you beauty! :D

This is exactly the test I was thinking of doing

But I'd never have got around to it.

*Edit* Wait no it isn't. It's similar though.

I was thinking you get a low delay weapon, get hasted to the cap. Essentially, you want to get a delay < .5.

With a delay < .5, in theory you would by guarunteed two swings between every cast.

The dragoon's reflexes test isn't dodgy because of dragoon's reflexes. He repeats stuff later on with other abilities. The only thing about it which makes me wonder is that the logs round stuff to the nearest second, and we're really considering times shorter than that. It might not matter anyway, but I would need to spend some time thinking about it, working out whether it was possible to have an attack in recovery time go off and then get rounded up to the next second.

I am going to have to look at your test again to work out what exactly it is you're doing

But still, enviable effort, regardless!

*Edit 2* "This is the following parse again SPAMMING those 6 CA's. ( the predicted outcome should be approx 12 auto attacks, since I can attack before and after each CA. )"

If your test consists of 6 spammed CAs, you should have 7 auto attacks?

Do it again without the double attacks, maybe that'll fix it

Or better yet, remove doublt attack, do it again with haste at the cap, then grab your log and see if you get two pierces between every CA

Orochan · 12-22-2007, 11:47 PM

Yea both of you are right, and tbh thinking back I dun even know why I thought .8 delay gave two Autos between Ca's >_<. I blame double attack!! ( srsly I do lol! )

I'm back from work, but tired lol, but will defntly run more test and logs after I get some sleep.

Unfortunately I don't even think I could max myself haste wise though w/o the help of at least a troub and a illy ( both classes that my guild doesnt have atm!!! wtf -.- ) but I'll try.

And it would take roughly max haste to get a delay of .4 ( 1 sec weapons are the only weapons that can even break <.5 delay iirc lol )

I'll also take off as many procs as I can so I can just narrow it down to 2 factors being tested CA's and auto attack. The closer we can get to that, the clearer the answer will be imo.