Hate Gain Swashie V Assmen

D'Buffs · 12-03-2007, 01:55 PM

Hey guys

I have been wondering for some time now wether or not a Swashie generates more hate than an Assassin

An Assassin should really be able to out DPS a Swashie but we get the added taunt/debuffs which add hate .

I only ask because our Raidleader believes that Assassins generate more hate on ST mobs and Swashies on group but i aint sure that would be right, just curious if anyone knows so i can stop moaning when i dont get MT group

Krontak · 12-03-2007, 02:05 PM

He sounds about right. The taunt is less damage than an average mele attack so I wouldn't count that into your equation of aggro transfer amount assumming 1 point of hate increase from a taunt = 1 point of damage from a mele weapon. I'm not sure if this is known for sure. As far as how much aggro a debuff adds, I couldn't tell you. I don't believe this info was ever provided to the public. I suppose you could somewhat calculate this if you had your aggro transfer onto someone, subtract out the amount transfered and you used only one of your CA's with debuffs attached to it and used various level evades until one of them worked. For the sake of keeping things simple I'm sure he could leave you in the MT group and there wouldn't be much of a diff on single target unless he's parsing like 1k+ more than you on single targets. Take into consideration I'm a nobody and my opinion matters to myself. :P

Hakujin · 12-03-2007, 04:36 PM

Assassins give the tank their poison proc too, which helps the tank's dps and hate gain.

You get better buffs in a good melee DPS group anyway, so why try to be MT swash ;p

Terminate · 12-03-2007, 05:18 PM

I believe swashies are better for mt group because assassins really dont benefit from the coercer since their self dps is soo high. as a swash i know i love having the dps mod to go with my self haste. Our single target dps is pretty hot right now anyways i beat assassin on single target about half the time.

pinkertoncd · 12-03-2007, 06:29 PM

I think it really depends on the raid setup. Our MT grp consists of Guardian, Defiler, Illusionist, Templar, Dirge and Assassin. The MA grp (melee) is Zerker, Mystic, Fury, Coercer, Monk and Swashy.

For myself, I like the Zerker and Mystic (alacrity) grp buffs and only on some mobs will I transfer hate to the MA. We sometimes substitute the monk for another scout class but this is our normal setup. The Assassin and I are always in the top 5, usually 1 and 2.

What say you?

Mendanbar · 12-04-2007, 03:00 AM

My dps is usually relatively on par with our assassin with a mt group setup of guard, swash, defiler, temp, coercer, dirge.

Interestingly, I think the flat out aoe dps number gap closed a decent amount because assassins can take that half-a-hurricane AA that they have. We should still regularly beat them in aoe dps though.

Aside from that, even though their numbers are often better than ours single target, my own personal observation is that the debuff components on our ca's makes up that gap and then some...

If I don't run avoid censure, I'm usually considerably higher on the hate list than our assassin, usually at the very least third, if not second, and I usually end up temporarily ot'ing if the tank goes down until our OT uses his snap aggro abilities to yank it off of me and stabilize the fight.

Rippit · 12-04-2007, 08:49 AM

In my situation;

MT group consists of Guard/Dirge/Coercer/Defiler/Templar/Scout
Melee group consists of Dirge/Illusionist/Inquisitor/Scout/Scout/Zerker-brawler-another scout

Both the swashbuckler and assassin are going to make out better if I am in the main tank group and the assassin is in a straight melee dps group. I gain more from the DPS and proc buffs than he would, he gains more from the haste, double attack, and berserker buffs than I would.

Mendanbar · 12-04-2007, 09:13 AM

The haste and zerker buffs, perhaps, it depends on how regularly you hit 200 haste and dps. But... you'd gain far more from the double attack than he would unless your DA is at cap.

Swashbucklers should be second or third on an illusionist's IA schedule, behind ranger, and probably tied with or ahead of brigand, depending on their build.

Scayre · 12-05-2007, 12:28 AM

Don't forget to include the 5% hate increase effect from the Bravado proc. Also I think the majority of our CAs recycle faster then an assassins. They can do more spike damage then us, but I think we do more consistently high damage over time.

The Assassin hate transfer is harder to get then ours. Theirs is a T6 CA while ours is a T7 M2 choice. Not all assassins have the skill mastered.

Also don't discount player gear, overall masters and skill.

Oh and reach...yes the added melee range makes it easier to recover a mob that decides to ping pong.