Orochan

Well there ya go! haha, thx for clarifying bro!~

Sorry for my bad info

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Skratt

thanks Haku

Hakujin

Okay, looking at Double Attack (DA) now.

- A DA's chance to hit is the same as your autoattack

- Autoattack accuracy is already (obviously) factored into your autoattack DPS numbers from ACT

Thus, you can simply add 1% melee autoattack dps for each point of DA you have. (But you have to factor out your existing DA first)

Do this (my numbers inserted for examples)

First, calculate your AutoAttack DPS assuming 0 DA (factor out your existing DA):

AutoAttack DPS Usually: 1400
DA % Usually: 86% (1H'ing obv)

AutoAttack DPS / (1 + DA % in decimal form)

so

1400 / (1.86) = 752

So in this scenario I am doing 752 base autoattack without any DA.

Now we simply calculate the DPS gain per DA pt:

(AutoAttack DPS - AutoAttack DPS without DA) / (DA % in decimal form * 100)

so

(1400-752)/(86) = 7.5

Thus 1 DA with the above assumptions nets you 7.5 DPS.

100 DA nets in this scenario 750 DPS, which doubles the 750 no-DA we had above.

>> This works, just plug in your usual auto attack and DA %. Enjoy.


Note when Comparing DA to Crit with this formula.
The double attack number you figure will be slightly higher than actual if you have melee crit gear on, since your melee crit will have already increased your melee autoattack dmg.

I personally like this, because it slightly overestimates DA's DPS impact and makes the crit -vs- DA argument easier to perform.

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Hakujin - 80 Swash / 80 Jeweler
Clef - 80 Dirge
Jyukin - 71 Mystic

Tiggin

interesting math. appreciate the time and testing you did to come up with some of it.

Now i just need to pull an old log parse and add it all together to determine the answer to my initial question. ie calculate the damage from crits / % and work out how much +ca damage does over time opposed to % to crit over time's value. (im wis atm so i think i'll leave the da vs ca alone for now - enough math as it is). Using that nice big 6 sec weapon and pulling consistant 6k+ crits off it gives me the gut feeling that +ca isnt going to stack well in comparison to crits in my current setup - although, with the high delay ill be fitting in more ca's / cycle so hmmm..

god i hate math

Scayre

Now you just need to factor in how much that second attack from DA would benefit from crits. If DAs benefit from crits, as I think they do, then at some point, the trade off between DA and crits would reach simpatico. That is, at some point you would gain an equal or almost equal benefit from one point in crit as one point in DA. This of course is ignoring the benefit that CAs gain from crit.

Does anyone know where that point lies? All other things being equal.

Roomance

Interestingly, the above doesn't seem to apply to our triple hit (Triple Blades) and double hit (Uncanny Thrusts) damage CAs.

Using our lvl 28 triple hit (Flurry of Arms) as an example, the +CA dmg cap for that line seems to be +150% of the minimum damage of the 1st hit (or 50% of the minimum damage of the 1st hit). Both min and max +CA dmg cap seems dependent on the min dmg of the CA.

By the way, I have NO idea why at +370 CA dmg, it's lower than +135 CA dmg.

Flurry of Arms App 1 - Lvl 28
[table]STR | +CA Dmg | Min of 1st hit | Max of 1st hit
776 | 0 | 65 | 109
776 | 10 | 75 | 119
798 | 40 | 105 | 149
788 | 80 | 145 | 189
788 | 100 | 160 | 204
762 | 135 | 165 | 209
800 | 370 | 161 | 205
Increases: | | ~150% of 1st min hit | ~150% of 1st min hit[/table]

On our double hit CA, it seems to be 100% of the minimum first hit (or 50% of the 2 min hits combined).

This will throw people off the 50% rule (which is true) if they judge the effect of +CA dmg by eyeballing the double/triple hit CAs (like I did)

Roo

JAime

I am normally analytical, but I must say that all your math calculations are completely retarded. Just go raid and experiment for yourselves. In my experience so far, I would say that a balanced of the three would be best with a favoritism towards Crit and DA, then CA third.

I'm sitting at 48 % crits 51-61 % double attack raid buffed, and I parse around 4k zonewide in most of the lower tier Kunark raid zones. Of course, this is with a stacked group of illus dirge templar.

I'm at 37 % crits and 16-26 % DA solo. I don't have much in the way of CA boosters at the moment, but I did just get the reet helm to try out.

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< THANK U FOR FIXING MELEE HIT RATES IN 2010! >

Tiggin

Lol slip your information was just epeenery bullshit. I asked for specific math not - oh have a balance. I KNOW to have a balance ffs but i apreciate the time the testers took to check out how +ca was working. I'm one of those super fussy min maxers that enjoys learning how things compare with each other in determining gear setup (and yes i change stuff around based on my group - im not some static mindless fucking drone).

JAime

Ya Tiggin I'm just saying that MATH is garbage and inaccurate. The only real way to tell is just try different combinations in raid with same raid zone and say group buffs. Exaggerate it, too. Like take away bunch of DA for crits or for CA dmg, etc...

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< THANK U FOR FIXING MELEE HIT RATES IN 2010! >

Tiggin

nah english and poetry are inacurate and garbage imo. If the math is done right its generally a pretty good guideline as now we have to factor in diff specs, da crit and ca stuffs ;). When spending dkp i wanna be the most informed i can be on paper before i bid on a non upgrade or a dud :P