MionDaPeon

Dual wielding really outshines fencing because you double attack with BOTH weapons. Considering the delay penalty, every point of da for dw is worth 133% of that while fencing. Additionally, you have more room to stack it, 0 - 100 vs 68 - 100 for a much bigger overall bonus.

Coupled with offhand weapon procs, more time in which to space CAs, and the boot dagger AA attack (gives efficient 30 sec access to one of our most damaging CAs) duel wield is by far the best dps against single targets, hands down.

Often if you can get yourself buffed over 20% double attack your better off dual wielding.

The only real upshot to fencing is a faster hit rate which will proc more hurricane and insight damage.

Enter the 120 odd damage mythical which is a good 20% better than most other fabled weapons out there. The possibilities for fencing with this weapon intrigued me so I ran the maths. I know theory crafting doesn't hold much water in EQ2 (like parses do) but this rundown might reveal reasons why the situation is what it is.

Comparisons were calculated using relative damage rating and assume no CA interruption.

mythical epic vs mythical & 100 dr weapon

202 dr vs 147 dr ---- 0% double attack

214 dr vs 162 dr ---- 10% double attack

226 dr vs 175 dr ---- 20% double attack

238 dr vs 191 dr ---- 30% double attack

240 dr vs 206 dr ---- 40% double attack

240 dr vs 220 dr ---- 50% double attack

240 dr vs 235 dr ---- 60% double attack

240 dr vs 250 dr ---- 70% double attack

240 dr vs 265 dr ---- 80% double attack

240 dr vs 280 dr ---- 90% double attack

240 dr vs 294 dr ---- 100% double attack

min delay fencing (125% haste) : 1.6 sec
min delay duel weild (125% haste) : 2.0 sec

As you can see from a pure numbers perspective fencing with mythical holds its own.

Even at 40% double attack the mythical does around 14% more melee damage (7% overall dmg). Unless your offhand weapon sports the equivalent of ~13% crit or double attack your probably better off fencing. (yes I realize some raids setups can get you buffed past 75+ da)

Going against the idea of fencing you have the super tight timing of 1.6 seconds. With duel wield you always have plenty of time to space CAs appropriately which can greatly up melee dmg.

Random bursting is better duel wielding since there is a chance to quad attack for crazy amounts. However, controlled bursts would be better with fencing's lower delay and insight

In conclusion I think fencing the mythical while stacking crit is a viable strategy which reinforces our role as AE and consistent dps. This is especially true in situations where you arn't super buffed (AKA assassin/ranger demands IA).

Pinski

So at 0% DA you have 67% DA for Wis.

121*3/4+100*3/4=165.75

Yet at 0 DA you give DW only an "equivalent DR" of 147. Uhm, your math is wrong.

202 dr vs 166 dr ---- 0% double attack
214 dr vs 182 dr ---- 10% double attack
226 dr vs 199 dr ---- 20% double attack
238 dr vs 215 dr ---- 30% double attack
240 dr vs 232 dr ---- 40% double attack
240 dr vs 249 dr ---- 50% double attack
240 dr vs 265 dr ---- 60% double attack
240 dr vs 282 dr ---- 70% double attack
240 dr vs 298 dr ---- 80% double attack
240 dr vs 315 dr ---- 90% double attack
240 dr vs 331 dr ---- 100% double attack

So yah, please come back when you learn how to do math. Thanks. As can easily be seen 40-50% DA = Fuck Wis-line.

Oh, and let's not forget the fact that you get 8 DA off of the weapon itself. So yah.

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Orochan

KoS : Wis line owns and does superior dps then DW
EoF : Wis only becomes worth it when wielding only a few select weapons, and even then DW was still considered superior by some raiders.
RoK : Wis died.

To use wisdom line for raiding now is basically saying to the raid "hey guys I don't give a fuck that I gimp my own dps mm k?"

Go DW.

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MionDaPeon

Pinski : its a 2/3 reduction not 3/4

so 120 * 2/3 = 80

and 100 * 2/3 = 66.66 (repeats)

80 + 66.66 = 146.66

to prove this equip two 4.0 delay weapons w/o haste, they become 6.0

4/6 reduces to 2/3!

Pinski

Since you don't understand math, I'll explain it to you.

You increase the delay by a factor of 4/3rds, which reduces the damage by 3/4ths. So, GG.

To show you how I know this is right, you have a weapon 73-411/4. This is a 121 DR weapon, put it in a DW setup, and you now have a 73-411/5.33. Guess what the DR is, 90.75. What's 90.75/121? 3/4ths. Thank you for doing math, please try again.

PS, 4.0 delay weapons become 5.33 delay weapons, not 6, it is only an increase by 33.33%, not 50%.

__________________
How many times do you hear it? It goes on all day long
Everyone knows everything And no one's ever wrong
Until later...
Who can you believe? It's hard to play it safe
But apart from a few good friends We don't take anything on faith
Until later..

Orochan

wtf are u getting that extra .7?

Refer to this for haste values and according delays : Haste and your swashy

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MionDaPeon

Ah, guess it is 3/4. So your numbers would be correct. I'm not really arguing that wis would be better than dw with the mythical, just exploring how it makes wis more viable.

I'd be all for "fixing" our mythical by adding another 25 dr on top of whats there and reinforcing our abilities for consistent dps, simular to how assassin's flurry enforces their burst capabilities.

Orochan

No, what makes wis a bad choice now is only the massive amount of + DA items in rok, there is no comparison anymore, DW > wis.

I'm pretty sure with wis a rogue could get up to or close to 200% DA pretty easily, effectively wasting 100% DA. No 25 DR will "fix" that.

So what's the point of even speccing wis anymore for raids? Other then to gimp your own dps.

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MionDaPeon

Given the choice between:

60% crit & 50% da for dw
....:::VS:::....
80% crit & 30% da for fencing

w/ the mythical I'd choose fencing.

Orochan

Except your scenario could never exist.

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