A few swashi questions - Page 2

Orochan · 03-28-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynnigig

I have a few questions concerning swashbucklers, which I haven't found conclusively answered browsing the forums. As a raidleader I am trying to come to terms with the classes capabilities.

1. Do swashis generate more hate per point of damage than other classes? Our swashi is convinced of this fact, if so, then that would mean, that for example an assassin or brigand would generate 1000 hate for 1000 damage, but the swashi on the other hand would generate more than 1000 hate for 1000 damage. I have never seen such mechanics discussed, but I haven't read everything.

What I do wonder about though, is that when our swashi is in a dps group (typically consisting of inqui/fury, trouba, illu, mage, mage, scout), he has to put his hate transfer buff on the trouba, in order not to pull aggro himself - even though his dps is only around 3k (because he is skilled in poisons and debuffs, as I understand). If our assassin takes the scout spot, he has no aggro problems at all, doing +5k dps at times. This I find quite strange. Where does all that excess hate come from? The debuffs?

Strangely, if the same swashi is put into the MT group, he cannot transfer enough hate to the tank (guardian) and pulls aggro himself. I am a bit perplex. I can actually only put him in the OT group, where he has no problems transfering hate to the berserker. Since the berserker recently betrayed to guardian, this leaves me little room to place the swashi anywhere in the raid.

2. My third question is regarding the spell Hideaway. According to our swashi Hideaway transfers hate to the tank, which I cannot find in the spell description. He claims that at times Hideaway fails, since the tank is at the hate cap. Our brigands have never complained of Hideaway failing. Under what conditions can Hideaway fail? Does it work differently with brigands than with swashbucklers? I can't imagine so.

Can a swashi use the Avoid Notice line, when in a solely dps position? By how much does it lower hate? Does Spurious Bravado do so much for a swashis dps, that you have to use it, even though it generates hate for you?

1. Brigands generate more aggro then any other scout imo, Swashies may be a close second, but their Xfer + avoid notice ( the - hate proc ) literally overshadows any hate they might get. Seriously if your pulling hate off the tank as a swashy, then either your tank sucks, or your swashy does not have his Xfer on anyone. Hate is the last thing a swashy worries about, because simply put, they have no real hate problems.

2. Hideaway can act like a transfer, in that if the swashy has his xfer on someone, and uses hideaway generally speaking, the mob goes straight for whoever he put his transfer on. This can also be seen with evade pulling.

Hideaway can never fail, or rather, I've never seen it fail in 3 years of playing a rogue, ever. So if the swashy somehow gets hate, hideaway shud be queued up and hate shud go back onto the MT.

I dunno wtf your swash is doing, or maybe if it's the way your tank does things, but w/e it is I hope you figure it out mate.

Mizou · 03-29-2008, 03:27 AM

i generate alot of hate too, if im in scout group im lost

if im in ot group with guardian im safe but only as long as i have his deaggro spell with -54% hate generation
or mt group with guardian with -54% hate genearation

so i believe your MT is dump cause he doesnt do the correct buff on your swashy

Linrilasal · 03-29-2008, 04:32 AM

I am usually in the MT group and the only place i have to watch my hate is on the Phara Dar encounter when the other dragon is up, he seems to reflect and resist a lot before it dies, other than that i can pretty much burn at will

Cynnigig · 03-29-2008, 04:42 AM

So, if I understand right, the guardian's Moderate should be on the swashi? Is that not counterproductive to the swashi trying to transfer as much hate as possible?

Linrilasal · 03-29-2008, 04:52 AM

I never have moderate, dirge hate, and mine is usually more than enough for our guard to keep aggro, sometimes he has a coercer but less nowadays than in eof

Nihlathak · 03-29-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynnigig

So, if I understand right, the guardian's Moderate should be on the swashi? Is that not counterproductive to the swashi trying to transfer as much hate as possible?

The only time I, when in the MT group, want Moderate is on fights that can be very large until adds die, like Thuuga for example. I'd really be blaming your Swashbuckler more than your Guardian... but if there's no other way to stop him from pulling aggro then you might need to have him Moderated.

Mizou · 03-29-2008, 12:07 PM

if im in mt group i usually dont need moderate, but on aoe encouters i spam him until i have it

in ot group i need either moderate or deaggro of a coercer

with a troub i never get aggro its impossible for me

so yeah well if i get aggro i have 3 spells / items to deaggro 1 whole possition which helps alot

so that u understand: moderate lowers my hate, but i still transfer my 19-27% to the MT cause 100-54=46-19= 27-19% left for my self after i transfer hate

so yes u transfer even if u get alot of deaggro , u still can put taunt gear on your swashy and it will encrease the aggro transfer maybe but he should always deaggro himself wich has nothing to do with your tanks aggro once he deaggros.

schreib mich mal an ich hasse englisch

Rippit · 03-29-2008, 04:34 PM

Ok so, I popped a 50% crit miracle and parsed about 7.5k on that huge encounter in protector's realm (total raid dps about 60k) and did not ONCE pull aggro from my main tank. I don't use deaggro poisons. I don't use evade. I don't use hideaway.

Mizou · 03-29-2008, 11:55 PM

used rallos 100crit 20da 20aoe miracle and the rov chest today in new tunaria throne:

Mizou|9661

i didnt lose aggro, i didnt have any deaggro cause a monk tanked and i was mt group

;)

Scayre · 03-30-2008, 02:10 AM

You ask several questions, I will just focus on hate generation of a swash.

Under the Bravado effect a swash generates 5% more hate, which would then be transferred to the tank.

So a swash generating 1000 hate per second normally would generate 1050 hate per second under the bravado effect. Without the bravado effect the transferred hate would be 1000 * 0.19 = 190 hate per second. With the bravado effect the transferred hate amount would be 1050 * .19 = 199.5 hate per second.

You could have a situation where an assassin does 1200 hate per second and a swash does 1000 hate per second just from dps damage. Unfortunately that does not take into account the amount of hate that is generated from debuffs. The amount of hate transferred from debuffs has not exactly been determined.

You decide if there is enough of a significant difference.

Also keep in mind that a swash's hate transfer is a master II choice at 19% while an assassin's hate transfer is at best a hard to find Master I ancient teaching at 18%.

And no, deaggroes do not generate hate, except as a method to just get on a mob's hate list. And a deaggro only works on the mob that you have targetted, unless it is an ae deaggro, which no scout that I know of has.

Also swashes can generate allot of AE hate via Hurricane.

Edit: An assassin can increase the amount of hate generated by a tank with their hemotoxin buff, something else to consider.